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  • KHV: Status of Outbreaks??

    I have not heard much about actual KHV outbreaks for quite some time. I am wondering if the instances are going down or just not being discussed. I have not heard of a dealer being hit by it in a long time. Somebody got info that can be shared?
  • #2

    Re: KHV: Status of Outbreaks??

    Originally posted by MikeM
    I have not heard much about actual KHV outbreaks for quite some time. I am wondering if the instances are going down or just not being discussed. I have not heard of a dealer being hit by it in a long time. Somebody got info that can be shared?
    Hmmmmm . Now that you mention it spring has passed and summer is here and I haven't heard the term SVC come up either... ALTHOUGH.
    Someone on another board ? Mentioned a case of a pond with no new additions in over a year where 15 older koi had died in a very short period of time(one day) but the goldfish all survived... all but one GF, as I recall.
    He said they cut them open and " the organs were mush"???

    I think I'll go pound on some wood ! :shock:

    Comment

    • #3

      I suspect we're keeping quiet. :shock:

      I know of one suspected dealer and one confirmed dealer in my area. The confirmed one suspected it back in May and quarentined themselves. The suspected one is because of some hobbyist suspicions, but they also have stopped selling koi. Both are attempting to trace the source of the infections -- I don't have an update on those attempts yet. Neither dealer was 'high-end' -- both likely got the infection from local introductions (not likely from breeders around here; more likely from hobbyists) or from other asian imports (not Japan).

      SVC, I've haven't heard about for a while.

      Quarentine folks.

      Comment

      • #4

        Gentlemen, as one of the members of a new committee formed by AKCA, I would like to say that we are interested in hearing about any information you may come across regarding KHV. All information will be shared with a science committee made up of five professionals from various backgrounds ( all with some association and experience with KHV). Any help you can provide as the eyes and ears for this Project, would be greatly appreciated. JR

        Comment

        • #5

          JR, a question and worry I've had is HOW to tell other people about suspected and confirmed outbreaks. A public BBS is a fine place for rumors, but there are ways for companies to track you down and sue for slander if you so much as breathe a 'there might be an outbreak at...' or 'so-and-so fish seem to be infected with...'.

          This goes for everything from costia to trich, including KHV. The KHA BBS is supposed to be a clearinghouse for some of this info, but local info is often more useful.

          Then there is the problem of how to tell clue members. Putting damaging info in a newsletter is out of the question. So far it just seems to be a whisper campaign -- those who know, know.

          Any ideas?

          Comment

          • #6

            Hi Jas, I agree that it is unfair to say a dealer has been hit based solely on a report that the dealer had a wipeout. Power failures, pH crashes, even massive costia can look like an epidemic to the untrained eye. And unscrupulous competitors love nothing more than to spread rumors.
            The only real proof is in confirmed tests at a recognized lab. So unfortunately, postives are usually only reported by the customers.

            Things are about to change in a big way. I'll keep you posted as things move along-- JR

            Comment

            • #7

              Originally posted by JR
              Hi Jas, I agree that it is unfair to say a dealer has been hit based solely on a report that the dealer had a wipeout. Power failures, pH crashes, even massive costia can look like an epidemic to the untrained eye. And unscrupulous competitors love nothing more than to spread rumors.
              The only real proof is in confirmed tests at a recognized lab. So unfortunately, postives are usually only reported by the customers.

              Things are about to change in a big way. I'll keep you posted as things move along-- JR
              That is my main concern. I want CONFIRMED CASES. Not some boob with a partasite he cannot diagnose/cure.
              If there are suspicions... confirm it ... PLEASE.
              Have the ballz to say where the fish came from after it is confirmed.
              ..............Zzzzzzzzzzz

              Comment

              • #8

                Jason, I'm sorry I missed the point of your post on the first read.
                I honestly don't think the Internet board is the ideal place for presenting the more detailed information. The power of PRINT is that it is permanent and MUST be accurate.
                A science committee is being formed as we speak that will be stacked with professionals from three fields- vet med, scientific research and field biology. Each individual is hand picked and experienced with the disease. They will ‘approve’ anything you see in print from this project so that we can produce the most reliable information humanly possible.
                On the consumer level, we are really only interested in ‘us’. And the grape vine continues to be very informative albeit not often accurate or fair to an individual dealer.
                ANYONE can be unlucky or have a momentary brain lapse and do something they will live to regret, so this thing should never turn into a witch hunt. But I also believe in the ‘three strikes and your out’ rule. So even if the dealer isn’t a creep and a conscienceless sociopath , after letting a disease like KHV out into the public a third time, that dealer is at least incompetent and not one that should ever be supported or recommended.
                At some point the USA needs to get a system like the one being organized in South Africa. That is, a statement of minimum practices and procedures , as a standard, for importing, testing and quarantining koi before any thought of resale.
                KHV is bad for the hobbyist and worse for the industry so I’m sure the dealers are coming around to certain realities everyday. We are all in this together- the hobbyists, the amateur organizations, The trade organizations, the dealers, the breeders, the filter makers, the food processors, the advertising media - all of us. We need to work together and blame no one but the disease. IMHO JR

                Comment

                • #9

                  While we touched on it briefly here there is much work to be done on a reporting level.

                  We must first recognize which part of the industry we're addressing. Starting with Breeders: While there are a few good Domestic Breeders, the majority is as opportunistic as any used car salesman. From:" Throw a couple of breeders into a mud pond and sell everything that hatches save for a few obviously deformed fish, or get a couple of endorsements from some gods in the industry and happily sell even diseased fish to the masses, or the backyard breeder that knows little and sells everything, including diseased fish, to pet shops and other unsuspecting or unscrupulous retailers” I see them all, every day, plying their brand of marketing and shoddy products, with no negative consequences whatsoever.

                  The import market, except for the Japanese, has and is losing their credibility and product quality at an increasing rate. Fish shipped from all corners of the earth, to Mega Stores without any fish, never mind Koi holding facilities, are sold to the unsuspecting customer every day.
                  Only the Japanese seem to have a tight reign on their Brokers, quality of shipment and arrival quarantine, but I really don’t import enough fish, to have a definitive opinion. My purchases from a few Japanese Koi brokers proved to be excellent.

                  Fish Brokers, offering differing breeds—the middlemen---in general, the more types of fish they offer, the more possibility of sick, diseased Koi. In my pet shop days and up to the present day, I’ve seen many of this type of Broker sending diseased fish to the unwary pet shop owner, to be sold to the naïve customer.

                  Retailers vary in types from the Mom & Pop operation to the Mega Mart. I believe that you will get the best service and products from a small operation that specializes in Koi and Ponds, graduating toward complete ignorance at the Mega Mart level. Large retailers have no financial or marketing consequences by eliminating a small part of their business, while the specialized shop will lose their livelihood.

                  I personally hate government interference into our business, but, unless we regulate ourselves, it’s coming and it’s coming quickly. For years I’ve been trying to organize a Nationwide Retailer, Broker and Breeder network, with no success. The network would be staffed by a round robin of volunteers from the different business entities. The Association would start disseminating information about good or bad product, Breeders, Brokers and Dealers, with an eye toward creating a stamp of approval (seal, plaque, award) for the good guys out there.

                  A perfect solution, no, but it’s a start. Anyone interested?
                  Werner

                  Pond-On (tm)

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    In the Chicago area, Southwest Koi & Goldfish were hit with KHV. Southwest was one of the wet vendors at the Louisville show. this is the second year in a row that a vendor has brought KHV infected fish to the Louisville show. Last year it was a vendor from Atlanta.

                    Mike Pfeffer
                    Mike Pfeffer
                    Northern Midwest ZNA show
                    June 19 - 20, 2010
                    Season's Garden Nursery
                    Fishers, IN

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Thanks Mike,

                      I almost forgot about Koi shows. In the last 2 Years, getting sick fish from a Koi show seems to be on the rise. Most of the time, I find out after the fish has died and disposed of, so a diagnosis is impossible.

                      Were the two instances in the Chicago area confirmed as KHV by lab test?
                      Werner

                      Pond-On (tm)

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Thanx Brian--

                        I'll be in touch.
                        Werner

                        Pond-On (tm)

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          MikeP: That was news I'd not heard. I am saddened by the thought. A cousin sent me the article that appeared in the Courier-Journal. Great PR to attract the general public. So sad if anyone was hurt by it, but especially sad if it sets back the effort to expand the hobby.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Most of the Niigata breeders who have koi out in the mudponds this year have had their stocks exposed to 80 F temps plus thanks to mother nature. It will be pretty obvious at drainage time if anyone had a problem.
                            Don't count on it tho!

                            Most of the scuttlebutt you hear coming from japan these days is people's confusion over food carp and nishikigoi.

                            I think it's been 7 or 8 years now that a Northwest Restaurant chain was traced as the source of Ecoli deaths/illnesses in several children. People
                            shunned the restaurant and their stocks plummeted. It looked for a while that they would go under. I bring it up only to demonstrate a point. When you got info from the public health tests that subsequently were monitored closely. Thier attention to cooking their hamburgers for the length of time at the right heat was right on the money evey check. Unlike thier competitors as the public health checks revealed.Actually it was the safest place to eat. They are now back economically strong with consumer confidence.

                            Werner makes a good point. Proper checks need to be put in place by the industry. Self regulation is always best. A dealer network of information would be most helpful. Most of the dealers I know are relatively small start ups and they do not have the knowledge or the facilities they need. Most start ups feel they will become suddenly rich and are $$$ motivated. Advanced knowledge is always the best antidote for problems. Q tanks and the knowledge of what to do is important. I would like to encourage someone we all have confidence in to
                            list them on this board so that everyone has the right information readily available. There are skilled dealers out there that know what they're doing. It has to do with the facility they buy from, and the facility they operate with. But please keep in mind that ultimately the person responsible for YOUR koi is YOU!
                            Dick Benbow

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Werner-

                              There was only once instance in the Chicago area this year though I heard from the dealer that there are many KHV cases in Chicago this summer. The other case was in Atlanta in the summer of 2003.

                              The Southwest K&G dealer(Chicago) was a confirmed case of KHV. I worked with a local hobbyists through his ordeal. He started with 75 fish, five of which he bought from various dealers at the Louisville show. One fish he bought from Southwest. When his fish started showing symptoms and deaths began, he happened to read an article I placed in our club newsletter on KHV and SVC and he called me. He choose to save what he could of his population by purchasing an eight foot show tank and heating. He also used Chloramine T. In the end, he lost 25 fish but saved the rest. They went back in to his pond after bleaching and pressure washing. I haven't talked to him recently but I saw the remaining 50 fish just before they went back in to the pond and they looked pretty good. This guy is still talking about adding to his herd in the future.

                              Mike Pfeffer
                              Mike Pfeffer
                              Northern Midwest ZNA show
                              June 19 - 20, 2010
                              Season's Garden Nursery
                              Fishers, IN

                              Comment

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