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Should money be given out to winners of shows?

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  • Should money be given out to winners of shows?

    1. I was just wondering why koi shows don't give out money to the winners?
    2. Or should money be awarded to those winners of a show?
    3. With money on the line will it make "Koi Shows" more sellable?


    Honestly, this question is for those who have won in shows and have long since retired from showing. But, if there were to be money involved would it bring out the best hobbyist out of retirement?

    The reason why I ask is that with the amount of money we as hobbyist spend on fish, shouldn't we get a return on one of our prized fish? What I am getting at is that most "Grand Champion" fish brought to a show here in the US or anywhere for that matter didn't cost the owner hundreds of dollars, but thousands of dollars.

    In the end what would you rather have?

    A. Nice trophie, plus bragging rights for the whole year until the next show??

    OR

    B. Nice trophie, $2000 prize money and bragging rights for the whole year until the next show??


    Just thought I'd throw that out there since the BKKS just pasted.
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.
  • #2

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

    Geez, the show system is so screwed up now, this would finish it off for sure. Folks already at fisticuffs over trophies, put money up and it'll be ten times worse.

    Besides, the clubs that hold the shows can hardly afford to do so now. I don;t see a bunch of prize money coming out of the woodwork antytime soon.

    If you give money to winners at shows it eliminates the "hobby" aspect and turns it into a professional competition. Besides what difference is a coupla thou' gonna make when the fish cost you twenny grand and you got another 60 or 80 large in the physical plant (fish pond)?

    Leave the money out. I do not see it as any big draw to collectors that currently do not show thier fish.

    Now, with something like a $100K grand prize, that might draw in some ringers. But a few thousand is chump change to most big time koi collectors.

    My thoughts, curious to see how others feel,

    Brett
    Brett

    Comment

    • #3

      When I first started in koi a few years back, I always wanted to win a GC. I worked very hard to purchase the very best tosai money could buy and then put years into their growth. In the beginning they never turned out. later as i got more knowledge, I'd come a lot closer. In fact, one year in a very tough competition I captured the Tategoi award.
      Later in a smaller show, I was able to get Reserve.
      Finally after close to 20 years of trying , it became obvious that dispite my knowledge....I was not going to compete with those that could bankroll
      a koi bred and raised for that purpose. So the last 5 years or so I have worked at the shows but not competed.
      Don't get me worng. I love to see high quality koi. The urge to afford one is still there .the reality is I can't compete in that league. Would money prizes change anything? well not for me. i still couldn't afford to be competitive .
      Do i want the rules changed. not really. As of late I have been breeding my own babies which have taken a few top in class prizes in our local show. will anything i breed ever compete for GC. I doubt it. What I have for breeders cost chicken feed compared with what seriouis breeding programs expend.
      To me money motivates some people and to some other, money is not the object or goal. It's keeping koi to become the best they can be and learning how to care for them in all seasons. What i have shared is not to be interpreted by those climbing the ladder in competition as discouraging!
      But rather an ENCOURAGEMENT to those who also can't afford to buy a GC potential koi. It's the satisfaction that your knowledge and hard work and study is first class.
      Sorry so winded. I quess i should Have just said I wasn't in favor of money. I've never seen it ( in government or personal use) when it was just thrown at something where it ever did any good!
      This is to say Aquitori, I don't see anything wrong with your asking this question it will be interesting to see others response. For me it's something I quess I was more passionate about than I realized! (lol)
      I was a bit more passionate about than i realized
      Dick Benbow

      Comment

      • #4

        brett is so often correct. So I'll go with that.
        Now in australia, where no koi are allowed to be imported...hmmm?

        What I am surprised at is the lack of money that changes hands in bets....Whoopdeedoo; If an American koi wins a GC at A major American Show, $1 will change hands.
        I'd sorta like to see an official "Fishing Party Boat betting Sustem" at Shows. On Party boats everyone that wants puts in usually five bucks and the person catching the biggest fish wins the pot.
        Biggest would have to be decided before the winners are announced in case the owner of the GC didn't put five bucks in.
        it'd be a cool way to see what someone really thought of their fish too.

        Comment

        • #5

          I don't think anything good would come out of having prize money handed out based on the judging. I do think a great deal of divisiveness would arise.

          Luke's idea is entirely different. If a group of folks want to chip in for such a friendly betting pool among themselves, have fun. Just don't pressure others into joining, and I think that would add to the fun for many.

          Dick: You are clearly right about it taking big bucks to have the GC in a major show. But, I think those who get the idea that having the GC is the only worthwhile goal are wrong. ... I know you know better. The cognoscenti quietly criticized Dr. Kuroki's emphasis on unique koi, because they knew it was the gosanke that mattered. But he understood that the pleasure to be gained from koi should not be placed in such a straitjacket. Having the best hikarimoyo or best tancho is as honorable a goal for the person who enjoys those classes. There wasn't any competition to speak of among asagi at the BKKS National, but nobody who knew koi failed to admire the Oakley asagi as a fine specimen, excellently grown. It was more an exhibition as far as that one was concerned, but nobody would question the award was deserved ... and the skill and work deserved respect. That is an award that will not grow dusty on a shelf.

          Comment

          • #6

            Bret, you have a point...Shows are kinda screwed up already as it is...I won a ribbon and never got it at the awards ceremony, cool on the clubs part who held it. Kinda lame to bring your fish to a show and not get the prizes awarded to your fish. I think the shows have to be independent of clubs, but should get help when needed. But, what if the enter fee was to be the same as in Japan? With major breeders, dealers and judges at the show to promote the hobby. It would be great.
            The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

            Comment

            • #7

              Just wanted to bring this debate back up....

              With new collectors coming into this hobby every month, I just wanted to get their take on this...
              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

              Comment

              • #8

                I agree with ya guy that money prize will crew up the show. However, if we can afford to have some prizes besides the trophies that could be better. Prizes can be a bag of koi food, koi stuff, or even a domestic air ticket...
                that's just my thought
                TK

                Comment

                • #9

                  Awarding system started with orchids with me. The day after judging at the show, everyone rushes in to see if they got a FCC or a silver plate for best exibit. All attention was funneled to ribbons and medals. After the shock or amazement, one could settle down to look at the, oh yea, the orchids. Then i got involved in Bonsai Shows. Beautiful creations all displayed with each one telling a story of style and age. I remember asking where are the silver plates and the towering monuments? There is none of that stuff in this hobby. Works for me, more attention on trees and less squable, but experts there to discuss and answer questions.
                  I would try the same with koi show. Have the fish examined by the judges. Leave a written critique on each one for the people to read and discuss the results of a profesional opinion. Take all the ribbons and monuments to the little league organization .Let the viewers pick out their GC. They too have a keen eye after all. The money should stay with show for better presentation and displays.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    What about grow out competition? I think that money should be left out of the show but for a competition, well I think it would be good if all the people that wanted to enter into this, buy the koi from a lot of koi that are all the same age and type and grow them out for one season and then put the koi in the competition and see who has the best eye and best husbandary skills. One for mud pond, and one for concrete or lined ponds.

                    So, no for the show and
                    Yes for competition

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Some shows like MAKC have some very nice sponsored trophies with a gift certificate included by the sponsor for up to $1,000+ on top awards.

                      Cash prizes are another thing entirely. I agree with most that it would encourage some to fudge a bit on the rules. Imagine some dealers "lending" a ringer to a customer with the understanding that the prize money could be used to reduce the cost of the koi to the owner if he/she decides to buy it after the show. Braggin rights (if you want to call it that) and a nice looking trophy should be enough.

                      For koi owners reluctant to show their koi it is doubtful that any reasonable amount of prize money would make any difference at all.
                      Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Having just worked a budget for the Seattle show, there is not alot of money left over for prizes, so there is a practical problem with this premise from the start.

                        Tank rentals are only a limiting factor for novices--which is a problem, because this hobby needs novices to show in order to keep the pipeline full of enthusiasts--so those probably need to be modest.

                        Cash awards would be a very poor idea, as the easy comeraderie in the "top tanks" is a bit lacking, from what I have observed.

                        I can only imagine the seething (and often totally baseless) resentment of "rent a fish" and "judge fixing," bad enough now, would be totally out of hand were there to be a significant bundle of cash involved.
                        ChrisC

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Maybe The Show Chair Should Get All The Cash! <grin>
                          Dick Benbow

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                          • #14

                            Now you're talkin!
                            ChrisC

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                            • #15

                              I would suggest this :

                              the reward should be $100K, on a check. check should says "void" if not cash with consumed granade explosive". A timed hand granade is build into the base of the trophy, with a diabling system. after the winner is done with all the photos, the check should be drop into the trophy, which started the timer. the granade will then does its job after 5 seconds.

                              The winner has the option of of refusing the $100K check. if the check is not dropped into the trophy in 1 minute after being offered, the explosive in the granade is discharged.



                              stan

                              Comment

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