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  • Momotaro Bakki shower & bacteria house

    Momotaro Bakki shower & bacteria house

    Hello all Nishikigoi Kichi out there.

    We have some questions too the “panel” regarding the Momotaro “Bakki shower & bacteria house”. We have not found any installation or user manual for this system so the questions are based on different web sites and mostly this one: http://www.momotaro-koi.org/english/syawa/index.htm . If there are some off you that could point too any documentation regarding the system we would bee thankful.

    1. As we understand it there is no removal off solid waist required from this system. That would suggest that all such waist is grinded into dust by the pumps and consumed/transformed by the filter media. The resulting chemical binding or particle is then removed by binding with oxygen?

    2. How do Momotaro handle growth hormone imbalance in ponds with this set-up? Are there a limit to Nishikigoi cm/to water volume her that is not given if so please share.

    3. The pump rate over filter if we understand it correctly is 2-3 times per hour. This will as an example give a 50 tons pond a need for 100-150-ton/hour-pump capacity?

    4. The amount given her is 300 kg for 10-ton pond witch give us 1.5 ton at the same 50-ton pond?

    5. The filter material and size is her compared against volume, are there anybody that have something on load ratio compared to flow and filter material?

    We her up in Norway are grateful for any input on the subject. We are still at the level off understanding where we daily remove waste. Fresh water is with drop-vales continually replaced. This has given stabile water conditions and good health, but we welcome all innovation that’s understandable and give results.

    Vogata NI
    Tone – Truls - Petter
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI
  • #2

    Sorry

    I must confess that I understand that the subject is been discussed to a great extent and its our fault that we had not picked this up before posting.
    Great too find so many angels given I now at page 10 and its hard stuff take in what ever way you cut it. Must say that there is a certain English way over congealing information in the conversation. We simple Norwegian is often known for technical product information sheets, not that this is a god excuse but it’s the only one I can find at this late hour (local time).

    Still to all the pro Bakki out there please point too an installation and/or operation manual. Planning off incorporation and/or testing gets match easier with something like this in hand.

    YS
    Tone – Truls - Petter
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI

    Comment

    • #3

      Dear Scandinavians,

      I have been testing the Bakki Shower media and method for some time now. I use 60 kg in 3500 gallons and turn it over once an hour, not unreasonable considering costs in the United States of America.

      I must say, there is no prefiltering and there is very little sediment on the flat tank bottoms although they have been running for 6 months. The poop seems to have disappeared.

      However, if I stop overflowing a large amount of water, a thumb size stream in a 3500 gallon tank, the water clarity gets very, very bad.

      Any pond will look good and work well if you overflow that much water. it is a semi open system.

      Comment

      • #4

        shiromujigirl - Overflow

        We her up in Norway are grateful for any input on the subject. We are still at the level off understanding where we daily remove waste. Fresh water is with drop-vales continually replaced in the range 10-15% daily. This has given stabile water conditions and good health, but we welcome all innovation that’s understandable and give results.

        Last winter we tested a 12 tons system (indoor) with 7.5 % overflow, mechanical filtration. The system held 37.4 m Nishikigoi, a mix off 20 Tosai and 7 eight years old non grower. Artificial light with natural spectrums (tried), controlled by timers and plastic “fantastic” fantasised media ~1 cubic meter. Turnover 1.5, 40-l/m air pump for oxygen supply.

        We got the best growth ever on the Tossai and we no longer have non-growers. No incidents over 7 months and nothing bad to measure.
        That said we are always looking for new things too improve our self’s so bring it on

        Tone – Truls - Petter
        Tone - Truls -Petter
        Vogata NI

        Comment

        • #5

          Hi try this link for a bit of info on Bakki showered ponds.No tech stuff I'm afraid! But proof is in the pudding so to speak!

          http://www.yumekoi.com/appraisals.html

          col :lol:

          Comment

          • #6

            Dear YINYANG

            Thanks for the input

            We have been on this site and red it many times. It was the formulations her and at Momotaro own website that prompted our questions.

            This is for us a quit normal advertising form and in fact gives very little for us except the fact that somebody has something to sell on the marked with a intend too make a healthy profit. It looks the same regardless off the quality off the product.

            When constructing factory plants and/or tying too improve on existing design and solutions, we regularly come across both. The start up question then always is what is the installation manual like. In such a document all the “ifs” and “don’ts” will rear their heads and give a more exact picture off the item in hand. If this passes some more is to bee learned in recommended use and technical information sheets.
            A product without user manual is always scary stuff to us, this don’t mean that a product is no good. Just means that all the work is on the buyers end.
            Tone - Truls -Petter
            Vogata NI

            Comment

            • #7

              I had too...
              Bakki is nice. BH media is overpriced junk.. as are Momo Jumbo Tosai.
              One idiots opinion( Thats me)..
              Nothing more..
              Enjoy the journey and beware of snake oil...

              Comment

              • #8

                Re: Momotaro Bakki shower & bacteria house

                Dear Vogata

                How are you? I am the momotaro dealer here in Australia.

                As to your first question I don't believe you are going to find a users manual anywhere on the internet.

                Yes the showers get fed from bottom drain, momotaro's pumps do grind up the waste before it is pumped through the spray bar but most hobbyist pumps just pump the waste straight over the showers the force of pumping approximately 10,000L to 13,000L of water over coral like surface such as the bacteria house would also shred the waste at the first layer. Complete biofiltration of fish waste occurs inside the bacteria house, ammmonia to nnitrite to nitrate. Nitrate, nitrite and CO2 are degassed off in the presence of large amounts of oxygen and hence the use of 3 to 4 tier shelves.

                Most of momotaro kois of the same age are kept in the same ponds you dont have a mix of gosais and tosais. the only exception would be the 1500 tonne pond where it is a mixture of nisai and older. The stocking rates are low in this pond and also the pond has 10% daily flow in of water (150 tonne).

                You will find tosai and koi fry ponds are extremely overstocked in momotaro during the winter season. A better example is with extremely high quality sansais and yonsais in the region of 75 to 85cms would be kept in a 100 tonne pond at numbers of no more 7 to 8 kois.


                That is the pump rate that momotaro uses, they have access to industrial pumps and ample electricity, probably a more realistic rate for us hobbyist is 1.5 times per hour pond turnover. At this rate the full potential of the showers is still reached a higher turnover would be best if stocking levels are very very heavy.

                Momotaro uses that amount of bacteria house because they are forced to stock extreme densities in the winter, if you only have a limited number of ponds than to maintain the same water quality you would need more filtration as you are putting more kois in each pond.

                Momotaro would stock anywhere between 40 and sixty kilos of koi in a ten tonne pond that is why they have recommended the use of 300kg. Each 50kg of bacteria house would comfortably filter between 300 to 350g of high protein food fed a day. In terms of bioload at three% feeding would equate to about 10 to 11kg of koi which is around 10 to 11 39cm koi

                There are always some that have had negative experience with filtration systems whether it is nexus of momotaro bakki showers, the point to see is that there are ten times more positive feedbaks than negative feedbacks about momotaro bakki showers. Those that may have negative experiences may be due to factors that don't appear before the eye. Every pond is different and every environment in which the pond is in is different.

                best regards
                tewa
                There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
                http://www.tewakoi.com

                Comment

                • #9

                  Strong words Doug, what experience have you with Bacteria House media and Jumbo Momotaro tosai?
                  You must have many bad experiences to slam the media and koi that hard!
                  Both seem to work well for me and there does not seem to be complaints from others using the media or raising jumbo tosai in the UK.
                  I bought a 49cm 11 month old tosai kohaku in March at Momotaro, if it comes back out of the pond in October I'm sure it'll be worth much more than I paid.
                  Koi prices are relative, you get what you pay for, but as with many things, there's no guarantees with koi.
                  Maurice.
                  http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    i agree maurice i think the media is great works for me and i have a kohku which stands out from the rest which are not from momotaro .i only wish i had bought all mine from him via mark.
                    jerseytrev

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Well I don’t discharge anything, but are generally a sceptic too everything that sound to good too be through, they usually are.

                      For the “bacteria house” it was the lack off technical information that sent up the red flags, this would also be true for the rest if it weren’t for the pre-learned knowledge about oxygen and degassing.

                      Cant say am comfortable with grinding dischargeable waist either. I find my living in the industrial part off our society and would if the first information where correct be able to sell ton upon ton off this. This changes with the knowledge off fresh water dilution and I fear even more with actual load capacity. It soon comes down to effect versus cost.

                      So:

                      How much more effective than witch other medium?
                      Are other enhancer’s entire obsolete, if not what do we keep??

                      Dear shiromujigirl what where your conclusion (except that its possible to get under without the beverages tasting any good)
                      Tone - Truls -Petter
                      Vogata NI

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        I enjoy your sense of humor!

                        when it comes to filtration I'm keeping my bakki Shower with BH media in additon to my J-mat vortex upflow system. I like the idea of gas exchange and oxygenation in addition to my 3 gigantic vortexes filled with j-mat. To me the more eggs you have scattered around in different baskets the better.

                        Some day youi'll have to tell us about Norway's weather and what you do to keep comntrol of your koi's health. I have no one else in Norway that I know and would like to learn what you keeping conditions there are like.
                        Is your water hard or soft? When you get time let us know. Fun to Learn!
                        Dick Benbow

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Dear Norwegians,

                          I am enjoying the way you write. I can almost hear you talking in your words as you write them.

                          My conclusion is that the poo does seem to disappear. BUT if I turn off the flushthrough water the clarity goes very bad. I will run these shower tests for at least a year. The other 3500 gallon tank has the same set up shower but with lava rock instead of Bacteria House.

                          The alcohol tests with and without Bakki Shower media did not find me under the table but on top pf the couch at my friend Savannah's house. This test will be repeated on September 11th but with about 100 people instead of three or four friends at Savannah's pond pull. Please see click2roark.com for an upcoming complete report.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Aloa Shiromujigirl

                            I’m not quit sure how to take the comments one my writing from all off you. Can’t really say that I’ve ever/never considered the written word to be one off my strong points.
                            The conclusions for me would bee that there are a strong over representation off teachers interested in Nishikigoi out there (oops, am probably flunking in BBS as I speak).


                            Back too the beloved “poo”. I hope we both mean the solids normally located in all places that we didn’t think about when we made our first pond.
                            And yes I’m trying to get through the postings on this board without losing what ever was given to me for safekeeping inside my scull.
                            I would expect that the amount solids would bee equal in both setups if you where to us similar pumps. In fact low consumption / high flow would for me be a contradiction in terms here (just humble opinion). The best function off degassing and dilution should bee expected when the solution where at an optimal mix. I believe it would be; all solids transformed to small partials (the smaller the better and in constant mix = high flow rate).

                            Thanks for hanging in there, and if I’m not mistaken the setup isn’t supposed too hold super values more than one year before a total scrub down (re DVD). The function off new “super media” is as far as I’m concerned in the hands off Kichi’s like you, so please keep up the good work. It would be nice if the deferens in your systems started to differ greatly. As you probably have figured I do love improvement and good solutions.

                            Over – under – or beside the couch we recon its still just a mater of dress code, meaning the “spirit” stays the same.



                            To dick benbow
                            Are you sure you’re not Norwegian? We are also expert one diversity and spreading everything out just to be sure. Just final question, how are you able to get all those eggs. We constantly find them in sort supply here.
                            Norway or way we don’t have vacations any more is in its making to the amusement off you this BBS and the rest off Vogata NI
                            Tone - Truls -Petter
                            Vogata NI

                            Comment

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