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Koi advise please

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  • Koi advise please

    can all the experts help me please ?
    Below is 2 pictures of koi that i like but i would like a opinion from the people of the board that know what to look for in koi as im not sure + are these show worthy koi.

    This one is 3yrs old 18inch showa female breeder ogata

    This one is 3yrs old 22inch kuchibeni kohaku female breeder ogata

    david s
  • #2

    Hi David,

    Age, breeder and size? At first glance, the kohaku is the choice...
    Best regards,

    Bob Winkler

    My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.



    • #3

      I like the 3-step Kohaku Really nice.
      The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.


      • #4

        i could take both of these from the owner but thats why i wanted advise on both of them to make sure there worth buying in your opinion.

        more advise on them please.



        • #5

          David the showa has a nice confimation but lacks abit on size. The band of shiro in front or the dorsal is a bit distracting especially if the bit of hi in the mid-line but the fades as I think it might. Having said that the shiro is excellent for a showa and the head pattern is interesting as well. Nice balance on the sumi of the pectoral fins.

          Of the two the Kohaku takes it hands down. Hice Hi, good balance good shiro, nice size and shape.

          Both are nice fish and I would be happy with either If like both and buy them it's not a bad pair though as I said the Kohaku is most likey the more valuable/costly of the two.
          Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat


          • #6

            Hey thanks for asking for our opinions, remember that's all they are and that to really "see" a koi, you need to see it in person.

            I like the kohaku as first choice. I don't mind the pattern on the showa but the beni makes me nervous.

            good luck with your decision
            Dick Benbow


            • #7

              I'd place the Kohaku first, also.

              I like the brightness of the Showa, but the pic is showing a pinkish area around the Hi step. That scares me. If that is on the fish & not just a camera illusion, I'd not want to take risk. Of course, everything is a matter of price.


              • #8

                better picture of showa

                this is a better picture of the showa for you to view.


                mike m the cost for the showa £200
                cost for the kohaku £450



                • #9

                  The showa's beni on the shoulder is a MAJOR concern for me. :wink:

                  Thai Koi-Keepers' Group


                  • #10

                    The way I see it is the bit of unstable hi will fade until just behind the little patch of sumi in front of the dorsal fin. The rest looks alot better to me.
                    Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat


                    • #11

                      David: You like that Showa, don't you? The Kohaku has good body, good beni, etc etc., but the Showa has spark to it. My appreciation of Kohaku is in much need of improvement. A great pattern will grab me, but tough to get excited over plain red on white. [Slings, arrows & rotten veggies cascade over me from all directions!] But, you are interested in showing. The judges have all been taught to look for body form and thick red, and all are taught that the true awareness is found in Kohaku. The secret rites of passage, contemplating universal oneness in the form of a grasshopper spitting brown juice ... It is part of a package. "Koi Truth" exists in Kohaku, and if one does not accept that, then that person has not received "Koi Truth". Judges want to believe they have received, or are receiving, "Koi Truth", so they want to believe in Kohaku. Much easier to convince a person who wants to believe. [Are my biases showing?] So, for show ... go for the Kohaku.

                      For love, it's the Showa .... but I'm fascinated by even ugly Showa! [Corerction. There are no ugly Showa. Only ones whose time on Earth ended before they finished developing.]

                      It can be amazing what photos do. In the first picture of the Showa the individual scales of the Hi plate along the dorsal are clearly visible, raising concern of all the Hi fading ... this is a 3 yr. 18" fish, so "stretched Hi" from fast growth is not what I'd expect to see. Makes one think of fading, particularly with the fading in front of the dorsal. The pic most recently posted does not show the individual scales so clearly. Looks rather thick from dorsal back, as BScott suggests. Don't know which impression is the more accurate. But, the Hi on the head looks pretty good to me. I do not think she will become a shiro utsuri. ......... Hmmmmm???

                      It is late in the season & dealers do not want to hold inventory much longer. A new harvest starts in just weeks. Only people heating all winter will be buying, and most of them already spent their budget for the year. You are willing & able to buy now, so you have more negotiating strength now than 2 weeks ago. And in another couple of weeks, you'll have even more. With that in mind, there's a chance the dealer has a photo from when the Showa was selected or when it arrived, and I suspect the Hi extended 2/3 of the way toward the head at that time. Ask if they have their photo from when it arrived. If so, check it out. If you are still interested, and ready to make your own judgment whether BScott is right in his guess, then offer half the asking price. If they say no, walk out. If the Showa is there still in 2 weeks, repeat your offer. At half the asking price, I think it is worth the risk IF you really love it. Just ask yourself: Would you still want the Showa if the blurry Hi fades, except for 3 scales that stay red like little pimples on her back? She would not do so well in a competitive show, but the Showa is for love, not show. And at that price, you're not out so much. On the other hand, if BScott is right, you've got quite a bargain IMHO, and she is otherwise rather finished at just 18". She could do well in smaller sizes.

                      P.S. Would you have room for both if 1/3 off for the 2? That would be like buying the Kohaku with the Showa thrown in for free ... that would take all your worry out of the mix. Show the Kohaku & enjoy the Showa without guilt. The wife & the mistress??


                      • #12

                        I'd be concerned with the showa's beni given the breeder that it's from!

                        IMHO not a good sign for the future of the koi and would be interested to know what that was like say 6 months back, my betting is that it was quite probably solid!

                        Mark Gardner


                        • #13

                          No question. The kohaku.

                          Mike Pfeffer
                          Mike Pfeffer
                          Northern Midwest ZNA show
                          June 19 - 20, 2010
                          Season's Garden Nursery
                          Fishers, IN


                          • #14

                            Id go for the kohaku if the red on the shoulder of the showa had not been there than I would have gone for that as I love showas the kohaku looks lke it will be a big koi.



                            • #15

                              Two very beautiful koi there! I am a great lover of Showa probably my favorite variety,but I would be in tears if that had been at my local dealers,reason???? It almost resembles that perfect Showa in my minds eye that I have been after for nearly five years,but the Hi looks to be on the way out?!?! Bloody shame!
                              So the Kohaku it is..... A great specimen of a fish, period.
                              And also a damn fine price too.

                              Col 8)


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