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The Emergence of Pearl Gin Rin, or?

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  • The Emergence of Pearl Gin Rin, or?

    I have no idea if pearl gin rin or any gin rin can develop over time or is extant from the infancy of koi, but as time is going by, the shiro on my larger (12") kohaku is really popping and some accompanying sparklies are showing themselves. Not whole scale ginrin and sparse in comparison, but similar to the example of pearl ginrin Richard posted not long ago.

    These pics hardly show them as well as I would like them to, but observe the left side of Songen's tail tube and her right lower shoulder behind the gill plate in the shiro--the silver/grey rows of dots have a silvery sheen to them in the right light, like shy diamonds or burnished platinum:


    This final pic was taken about a month ago. The previous two in the last couple of days.


    So what is this developing? Gin rin, fukurin, or?

    Richard, any insight?

    Marie
    Marie

    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

    "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
    paints his own nature into his pictures."
    --Henry Ward Beecher
  • #2

    Can't see much...

    A picture is worth a thousand wild guesses , but what little my eyes can see would make me lean toward fukurin development. I'd like to hear Richards take on it too as he knows how to read his fish best
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

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    • #3

      Pearl gin is rare. I have never seen a koi with pearl gin in person. Photos show scales with tiny little pearl like projections in the middle of each scale. Looks kind of like a pearlscale goldfish scale. Not really that attractive based on what photos I have seen more a oddity.
      Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

      Comment

      • #4

        Just love those wild guesses!

        Ayup, I see that those pics aren't quite close enough to really tell much and I apologize for that--I'll have to get some closer. It's alot more evident firsthand...and from looking close I've noticed these shineys appear to be between the scales and not on, so maybe it is fukurin, though if it is it sure is sparkly. I'll see what I can do about some real close ups when it gets lighter outside...

        Marie
        Marie

        http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

        "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
        paints his own nature into his pictures."
        --Henry Ward Beecher

        Comment

        • #5

          Thanks Ray

          Originally posted by RayJordan View Post
          Pearl gin is rare. I have never seen a koi with pearl gin in person. Photos show scales with tiny little pearl like projections in the middle of each scale. Looks kind of like a pearlscale goldfish scale. Not really that attractive based on what photos I have seen more a oddity.
          Here's a couple of pics of pearl gin from RR's thread if you didn't get a chance to peruse it:



          Since the ginrin is silver on shiro and gold on hi, by plucking hairs would this technically be a pearl kin gin rin? I ask because the breeder and bloodline of this koi is the same as mine that I pictured first, and may possibly be the same parent set though mine is from a later spawn.

          Marie
          Marie

          http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

          "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
          paints his own nature into his pictures."
          --Henry Ward Beecher

          Comment

          • #6

            I think what you have is the Matsunosuke Gin Rin fleck. Strong Gin Rin or High Quality Gin Rin is up when the fish is very small. The hardest thing for any Gin Rin is maintaining the Gin Rin when the fish gets bigger and bigger.

            What I am concerned about in the picture is the shallowness of the beni. The obushi(center of scale) is not very thick, at this point the obushi should be a dark persimmon. I dont think the beni is strong enough to hold it's color.
            The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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            • #7

              How about this for Pearl Gin Rin:

              http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/file...i_pgr1_210.jpg
              Regards

              Gazza

              Comment

              • #8

                Quality of ginrin is also judged by the eveness of the ginrin over the fish's body. A fish that has only a few stray, sparklie scales detracts from the pattern and is not desireable. As Aquatori mentioned, the life span of even great ginrin in a young fish many times becomes suspect as the fish matures. Quality ginrin in a 28" fish is rare indeed.

                Rick

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                • #9

                  Originally posted by GazKoi View Post
                  that's a picture that I took in Oct. 2005. Here's a few more that will actually show the pearl scale much better. The shiro muji will give you a better look of how the Gin is placed within the scale. To see it in person, the actual gin is placed right in the middle of each scale.


                  Rob
                  Attached Files

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                  • #10

                    They say these will sell well and expensive
                    Regards

                    Gazza

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Dang, they look like Christmas lights on koi?
                      Nor-Cal Koi Unit KOI ADDICTED AND NEED NO CURE!

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Rob: I've not seen so many examples at once. Great shot.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          The Gin Rin Marie is speaking of is one of those interesting genetic offshoots. With enough pairings, and fish flowing through the system, you see some interesting things that occasionally add to the sum. Where it came from? Don't know, but it's worth monitoring. The hope is that the gin rin will subside with age and leave an uncommon luster to the shiro. If not, then it's simply an oddity.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Originally posted by aquitori View Post
                            I think what you have is the Matsunosuke Gin Rin fleck. Strong Gin Rin or High Quality Gin Rin is up when the fish is very small. The hardest thing for any Gin Rin is maintaining the Gin Rin when the fish gets bigger and bigger. *nodnod* Gotcha. HQ Gin Rin is up from the beginning. The Gin Rin on my Hi Utsuri is starting to dull out and is spotty all over the fish instead of a blanket of sparklies vs. my showa, which is still brilliant...

                            What I am concerned about in the picture is the shallowness of the beni. The obushi(center of scale) is not very thick, at this point the obushi should be a dark persimmon. I dont think the beni is strong enough to hold it's color.
                            Thanks for the astute observations, Tony. I can explain the problem with the obushi, which is MY fault--this fish took flying lessons when I first put it in the pond, jumping out into the laps of several kitties, who effectively removed every scale from behind her head to mid-dorsal fin down to the ventral line and terribly lacerating her face, mouth and jaw with deep rips and punctures as they endeavored to chew her face off and eat her alive.

                            So, beni receding? I could be wrong now, but I don't think so--Give her more time to finish generating scales in the places you see that looks like thin beni (it was the very top of her shoulders in front of her dorsal and behind the head that received the most scale damage and skin abrasion), and heal the scars on her face (which had been stark raving white but is darkening, almost matching the original beni).
                            Not a bad comeback for a fish that should, for all intents and purposes, be dead:






                            Last picture--look along the division between shiro and beni--is that the Matsunosuke fleck you speak about? It's not as Rob explained pearl ginrin should be, in the middle of each scale, but on the upper corner. It does give a nice lustre though.

                            Can you give me some more information about the background and history of Matsunosuke flecks to fluff up my knowledge banks?

                            Marie


                            Marie

                            http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

                            "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
                            paints his own nature into his pictures."
                            --Henry Ward Beecher

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Absolutely stunning! Thanks for adding these to the discuss

                              Originally posted by koinut View Post
                              that's a picture that I took in Oct. 2005. Here's a few more that will actually show the pearl scale much better. The shiro muji will give you a better look of how the Gin is placed within the scale. To see it in person, the actual gin is placed right in the middle of each scale.


                              Rob
                              Wow Rob! Thanks so much for posting those beauties! Looking closer though, the pearls are not in the middle of each scale, they are at the top edge, in the corner:


                              What bloodline does this come from Rob?

                              Marie
                              Marie

                              http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

                              "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
                              paints his own nature into his pictures."
                              --Henry Ward Beecher

                              Comment

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