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How can this be???????

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  • How can this be???????

    I have about 45 Tosai born 3 December 2003 with 6 large female in my large mud pond. The tosai range in size to the biggest being 15 inches and the other mostly 10 to 12 inches.
    This morning while feeding them I noticed that one of the big females were spawning in the grass on the edges of the pond and being helped by three or four male Tosai.
    They are 11 months old today and my question is will these young fish have sperm?
    I hope not because I am using this as a growing pond and not a fry pond and all this is doing is messing up the water and delivering unwanted fry taking up precious space in the pond.

    Hope they are just practicing and shooting blanks.
    Jaco
    Last edited by jacovors; 11-18-2004, 01:52 AM. Reason: Change in situation
    Jaco Vorster
    South Africa
  • #2

    Jaco. I don't know how to put this delicately but if they couldn't play what would they be doing there? Maybe Brett or Brady will answer this, they have more insight into male behavior.

    Can you get some of the eggs and see if they are viable?

    Comment

    • #3

      Practicing!

      SMG, with boys the thought is there long before they can "play"! I remember back,... well, I'm not going to share that.

      Jaco, Koi are ritualistic,... they like to dance, and school, and socialize, so if older Koi are doing something "cool" the younger ones will often join in,... even if they are not mature enough to contribute some genetics,... they will pracitce - BUT, also, maturity in many animals can be more related to size than to age,... a large fish, though it's yong can have the goods. Remember that 7 feet tall 13 year old kid in your 7th grade gym class that was as hairy as Sasquatch, and walked around popping your Arse with a wet towel? So, some of the larger tosai male Koi may have been able to contribute some, but likely not much.

      Best Wishes,
      Brady

      Comment

      • #4

        Thanks SMG and Brady,

        I hope they were only practicing. I read somewhere that in a lightly stocked pond the koi mature earlier than in a crowded pond.
        Well if they did contibute some sperm there will be very few hatchlings that will survive because these fish are digging and searching for food along the sides all day long.
        Time will tell.
        Thanks again you two
        Jaco
        Jaco Vorster
        South Africa

        Comment

        • #5

          Jaco,

          If they do have it in them, it's called 'milt', not sperm ;-)
          Andrew

          "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

          Comment

          • #6

            Thanks Andrew,

            I am not English speaking and translated directly.
            Thanks for correcting me.
            Lucky for you my name is not Luke
            Jaco.
            PS. They are busy with another female today, so I do hope their milt are too little to produce a lot of fry.
            Jaco Vorster
            South Africa

            Comment

            • #7

              Jaco,

              You're welcome, and indeed it is lucky for me! ;-)

              Regards,
              Andrew

              "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

              Comment

              • #8

                Interesting thread





                Most koi keepers who have mixed sex and aged ponds have seen mature males chasing females with younger males in hot pursuit. Doesn't mean they will contribute any genetics but as mentioned are socially blending into what's going on.

                many two year olds can contribute and by 3 it's a given
                Dick Benbow

                Comment

                • #9

                  I have always thought males had to be 2 years and females 3 years to breed is this not so.?

                  rick

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Thanks Guys,

                    There are only Tosai males of 11 months old in this pond the larger older koi are all female.
                    Even the large females that have spawned already are joining in.
                    Every day they choose a new female that have spawned already.
                    It seems that only 4 Tosai males are the culprits here.
                    Well will know in a few weeks if the eggs hatched.
                    Thanks,
                    Jaco
                    Jaco Vorster
                    South Africa

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Hi Jaco
                      You Free Staters are known for your friendliness and hospitality but this is going too far!
                      Beste wense ou maat

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Hi Jim,
                        Must be something in our water
                        Jaco Vorster
                        South Africa

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Great to see you at the weekend, if only briefly. What a surpise. Nice to meet the family as well. Next time you make the trek up north, let me know. I'll have some borewors ready.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Hi Jim,
                            Was nice to see you again.
                            I will make a plan to visit you when I go To Gauteng again.
                            Thanks for the invite.
                            Jaco
                            Jaco Vorster
                            South Africa

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Jaco, I've just returned from Japan. One of the highlights for me was to be, seeing my now nisai kohaku at Momotaro, which was harvested a few days before my arrival.Born April 2003 , 49cm when purchased in March this year, she was the biggest at the time of the auction.
                              Come harvest a few weeks back a huge bowl was filled with thousand upon thousand of fry borning in this pond. An unidentified male or two had slipped by and caused mayhem in the pond.
                              My female being the biggest and most mature was sure to have been one of the egg layers. Remember these were only 13 months old when they went into the mud pond.
                              Growth was sure messed up for my female, I was hoping for 65cm or maybe more. She made 60cm, but a couple have overtaken her.

                              If females can be mature enough at 13/14 months, I'm sure males can be.
                              I'll post some pics when I have installed the software on this new laptop.
                              Maurice.
                              http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

                              Comment

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