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  • GE Silicone I

    Hi,

    I am in the process of improve the filtration system for my pond by adding an additional pre-filter chamber with brushes and blue-filter matting to remove free-flowing particles and a trickle tower for de-gassing and removing nitrate. I am just curious if GE silicone I(clear with 100% silicone) is save for fish. I am using it as a sealant to glue the splash guard in place for my trickle tower, which is sitting on top of my j-mat chamber. Even though the silicone is not submerged, but there will be some water splashing on it. I am concerned that GE silicone I may have other additives that can be toxic to koi. Does anyone have any experience with this product?

    Thanks,
    Tosai-Sunny

    P.S. As a suscriber of Koi Bito and a regular reader of this forum, I would like to thank Brian for making this possible. Although, I rarely post on this forum, I always enjoy and appreciate all those who's taken the time to post and share their knowledge and experience with us newbie here.
  • #2

    I don't think you should have a problems with the glue just as long as you let it dry completely. before exposing it to water.
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

    Comment

    • #3

      I used Silicone II with my Cloverleaf filter fittings (metric fittings don't work exactly right with US pipe). That was last year.

      No problems yet. I think it is very safe.

      Comment

      • #4

        Color isn't that important. What you do need to watch out for is the proper type of silicone. There are two basic types. "Standard silicone is used in making aquariums and is safe for fish. The other type is used in bathroom caulking and contains an anti fungicide that will not do your fish any good.

        Making sure you have the right one can be a bit of a pain. Manufacturers tend to claim their product is suitable for all kinds of things when it actually isn't. The best rule of thumb is to look and see if it is labeled safe for aquariums. In general the other stuff will not make this claim.

        As an alternative to silicone, have you considered any of the new polymer based mastic now on the market? It tend to adhere to more type of plastic and rubber that silicone won't stay attached to in the long term.

        B.Scott
        Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

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        • #5

          B. Scott:


          Devilishly good advice!
          Dick Benbow

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          • #6

            "any of the new polymer based mastic"

            B. Scott-

            Can you give us an example?

            Mike Pfeffer
            Mike Pfeffer
            Northern Midwest ZNA show
            June 19 - 20, 2010
            Season's Garden Nursery
            Fishers, IN

            Comment

            • #7

              We may have a little translation trouble with this stuff. Living on mainland Europe makes it hard for me to know just what is and is not availible to the markets in other countries let alone know what the product is called there. I have done a little digging and found some info and managed to translate it.

              What I like about it is the fact that it will also adhere to PVC where as silicone can be peeled off when dry. It won't stick to polyurethane.

              The product I use is called MS Polymer from Zettex and is described in the Dutch literature as a silane-modified polymer.The rest is a bit cut and dried info but may interest a few of you.


              Non toxic

              Injectability
              5bar/3mm/23°C 140g/min

              Skin Forming
              23°C 50% R.H.8 minutes

              Non-Stick
              23°C 50% R.H. 25 minutes

              Interal hardening
              23°C 50% R.H.
              24 hrs 3.9mm
              48 hrs 5.1mm
              72 hrs 5.9mm
              96 hrs 6.7mm

              Shrinkage after hardening
              <3%

              Hardness DIN 53505
              58 shore A

              Tensile strength
              2.61 N/mm

              Tear resistance
              73 N/cm DIN 53507

              Thermal stability
              -30°C to 95°C

              Peak
              155°C max 30 minutes

              Stretch to break
              >350%

              Application range
              +5°C to +40°C

              Salt water and chlorine proof
              Vibration resistant
              can be painted over directly using Acylic and High-Solid paints

              (edited to make it a bit bit more legible)
              Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

              Comment

              • #8

                Thanks everyone for your input. B. Scott, I agree with you that silicone is not a good adhesive for PVC and plastic. After I silicone glued the splash guard to the bottom of my new trickle tower and let it set for 24 hours, the splash guard came loose as I was drilling holes on the barrel. :-( It's back to the drawing board! I do need stronger adhesive than silicone. Does anyone know where to get the products that B. Scott listed above or something similar here in the U.S.?

                BTW, I did find a another silicone glue made by DAP which indicates in it's label "food contact safe". Am I correct to assume that this means fish safe? I may decide to use this temporarily until I find something stronger.

                Regards,
                Tosai-Sunny

                Comment

                • #9

                  TS, I did a little bit of looking on the net using the phrase "Silane-Modified Polymer" and came up with an alternitive name for these products "Elastomeric adhesive/sealant" These are also used in cars and glazing. Might be a good place to start looking.


                  Here is one US company I found... Dow chemicals makes something similar as well. Perhaps they can tell you about a retailer in you area.


                  Polymeric Systems Inc. (PSI) of Phoenixville, Pa., has introduced PSI 801 - SILI-THANE elastomeric adhesive/sealant. The company created the product using modified silane polymer-based technology in an effort to make the sealant flexible for a wide range of applications. According to PSI, the sealant withstands 500 percent ultimate elongation, is able to be painted and will not stain or corrode the substrate.
                  SILI-THANE sealant adapts to cold temperatures, high humidity or moisture and won't foam or bubble as it cures, according to the company. The one-component sealant is available in white, gray, limestone and black.
                  Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    B. Scott,

                    Thanks for the follow up information! I will look into your suggestion.

                    Regards,
                    Tosai-Sunny

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Check the local Boating stores in your area, they should carry many adhesives and sealants that are appropriate for below waterline applications. I have used 3M's 5200 product many times on boats and it will stick to just about anything and is impervious to just about anything. I could not find from their website if this product is safe for fish, but once it is cured I would think it is pretty much inert.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Try Sika

                        Sika products here in north america I use lots of them. www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-mc-products Cheers Gary

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          A couple of these (e.g. SikaLastomer®-68) say they will even bond polyethylene. I didn't know anything would do that.

                          steve

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                          • #14

                            I tend to agree with you bekko. For PE you either need to weld it or use a rubber thru-fitting. I would be sceptical of any manufacturer claiming to have a mastic that bonds PE
                            Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              You are correct Sika 68 doesnt bond polyethylene it is a sealant not a glue it is used to seal mechanical joints. Sika 68 never hardens or loses its flexibility and adhesion but it will stretch apart under stress. If you read the tds sheet it is explained in there. I can answer most questions about the products as I deal with the Sika rep quite often in my business and have had most of them explained to me in detail as to which product to use in diferent situations. Cheers Gary

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