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  • 'Monster kohaku'

    These past few years, one of my local koi dealers has imported from Japan what he called as 'monster kohaku'. It is so called because he claimed that it will grow to monstrous size (very big jumbo).

    Out of curiosity, I purchased one tosai in October 2002. It was about 35 cm at that time. True to his words, growth rate has been quite staggering so far. By February 2003, it already reached 47 cm. By now (November 2003), it is about 60 cm. To think that it is only 30 months old! This is certainly comparable to the growth rate of Momotaro's.

    But what intrigued me is, who is the breeder? Is there really a 'monster kohaku' breeder in Japan? Does anyone here know? Or is it only a marketing gimmick?
  • #2

    Kiky,

    There are actually quite a few that fall under this or a similar name. Any more details?
    Brian Sousa
    Koi-Bito Forum

    Comment

    • #3

      where did you buy this koi, in indonesia? which dealer? wouldn't the dealer know which breeder it came from? My guess, from the description you gave, is that the kois are not so far from its magoi origin.


      60cm for a sansai though, truth be told, is not out of the ordinary these days even for gosanke. i have a momotaro kohaku, not one of their first class koi i'm afraid, that's barely nisai and already more than 60cm.

      Comment

      • #4

        I've been told that there is a secret breeder who produces kohaku that are 50 cm at birth. The eggs are basket ball sized and the koi are mostly grand champion material at 120 days of age. The female that throws these young is two meters long and eats only egg rolls. She is kept in 750,000 tons of water and special filters are needed to get her to the breeder's goal of having the first high class three meter kohaku in the world.



        ( hey, this is fun!! ) JR

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        • #5

          Made me smile, I needed that - thanks
          Regards, Bob
          ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º>
          <º}}}}>< <º}}}}><

          Comment

          • #6

            Shame on you JR! EVERYBODY knows that egg rolls stunt growth of high class koi. She is being fed live crabs that she slams against the side of the pond with her tail before eating the yummy bits.

            She's very smart -- her and Koko are pen pals.

            Comment

            • #7

              it is very tempting to grow koi fast, especially the beautiful ones. But I think it is more important to keep them healthy, happy and alive.

              few months ago, I had a kohaku, 35cm at 9 months, growing at a rate of 4 cm per month after I got it. It was my best kohaku, but it is living in koi-heaven now. (suudden death, no wound, nothing).

              I live in northern California, so, big grow can occur everywhere.

              perople get so stucked up with growing koi fast, and yet still believe in the 'zen' aspect of koi. What a world.

              stan

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              • #8

                Who cares about size anyways....the smaller the better I say....Okay?......Well, a koi's growth rate is in the first 2-3 years of life anyways. When they hit the magic make of 30 inches do they start to slow down....Am I amazed? No. If the quality does not get better as the koi gets bigger it is no good. It's one thing to grow big fish, but to maintain the quality is even harder. Everyone has the skills to throw food in the pond but not alot of people has the skills to condition their fish. Eggrolls? Must be some super protein eggrolls....
                The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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                • #9

                  aq, with some luck you don't have to throw in much food. I feed them less than 0.5% of their body weight daily in the summer, and I have a pondful of fast growing nice kois. But, among them is a 28 month old ginrin sanke, at 6".

                  I have seen people who were feeding at 2% in the summer, and the young kois hardly grow. Go figure.

                  stan

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    aq,
                    talking about conditioning a koi, I don't think we are doing what the zen aspect of koi demands. In zen, there is no such thing as changing the nature. In zen, one find the inner wisdom that enventually opens the path to see the nature and jive with it, Endless peace and enlightenment will make one sees the ultimate beauty in all life, including the ulgiest koi you can find. I don't see how i can do that with a bottle of formalin in my hand.

                    I look back my last 18month in this hobby, I can only classify myself as an idiot. Inner peace were no where to be found, but constant nutty chase after water quality, desease, infestion, beni depth, emerging sumi, and many nutty terms/thing/goal.

                    I really appreciate what my mother inlaw told me: "raise a koi, appreaciate its life, and the peace it brings upon your life". I am extremely happy that my parent were no koi breeders, they might have culled me ages ago.

                    stan

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      well saratogatan - and i'm probably spoiling it by actually saying it - you can't go looking for inner peace in Zen, or the path of nature, etc.
                      just do what you got to do. if koi keeping demands that you clean the filter, maintain the water, grow the fish, cure disease, then you do those without reservation. And when it comes time for you to lie down beside your pond and take a rest and enjoy your koi, don't mistake that for the inner peace period.

                      it's just something you do.

                      what your mother in law said.
                      when you raise a koi, you raise a koi.
                      when you appreciate its life, you appreciate its life.

                      But bring peace into your life? That's down to you, not the fish.


                      i'll get my coat now.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by saratogatan
                        aq,
                        talking about conditioning a koi, I don't think we are doing what the zen aspect of koi demands. In zen, there is no such thing as changing the nature. In zen, one find the inner wisdom that enventually opens the path to see the nature and jive with it, Endless peace and enlightenment will make one sees the ultimate beauty in all life, including the ulgiest koi you can find. I don't see how i can do that with a bottle of formalin in my hand.

                        I look back my last 18month in this hobby, I can only classify myself as an idiot. Inner peace were no where to be found, but constant nutty chase after water quality, desease, infestion, beni depth, emerging sumi, and many nutty terms/thing/goal.

                        I really appreciate what my mother inlaw told me: "raise a koi, appreaciate its life, and the peace it brings upon your life". I am extremely happy that my parent were no koi breeders, they might have culled me ages ago.

                        stan
                        Too spiritual for me...Anyways, no mother in-law is going to tell me what to do, I don't thing my mother in-law will ever know as much as me when it comes to koi...That's for damn sure!!! HAHAHAHA. Getting back to the topic..I have travelled all around San Jose looking at peoples ponds and I have to say I am pretty impressed with all the landscaping and junk like that, yeah ying and yang stuff...But, I fail to find inner peace when people's fish look horrible. Well maybe I am looking at the show side of the hobby...I think and this my opinion, if you spend X amount of money on fish you should take this hobby alittle more serious. But then again I am not retired, not a dot-conner and not a Walton...
                        The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          I would agree with aquatori(hope I spelled it right) on this. While fast growing koi are nice it is nothing without quality.Also I would rather have a koi that takes five to six years to reach the jumbo sizes and then stays at a high quality for another five years.In my opinoin you are not talking Jumbo until you reach the lengths of 85cm.+ So 60cm.at 18 mos. is still not jumbo . When the koi reach 85cm. with excellent conformation and great color then you can call it jumbo.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            As the paces of our daily life quicken & we get more impatient wanting to see results in a short time frame so koi breeders have developed jumbo tosai to meet our expectations. I myself own 4 jumbo tosai beside the 7 normal tosai,2 from momotaro & the other 2 from Dainichi. Their grow rate is almost 3X compare to the other 7. Some local serious hobbyist from my koi club have visited my pond & they said my koi comformation,tsuya,teri,fukurin,thickness of the colors,the way they swim etc.is fine. The shits is ok too. I'm wondering since the external parts of the koi is ok what about the internal organs? These jumbo tosai eat so much will they be 'choke' to dead 1 fine day by their building up of fat in their organs like liver?
                            I'm giving my koi sweet potatoes or pumpkin for extra vitamin supplement & also according to Daisuke San can enchance the internal organs. I'm using tofu for calcium as I find that tofu have high calcium contents. These I give every alternate day beside their daily Momotaro food mix with Hikari excel.
                            Any guys that have kept jumbo tosai for longer period of time care to share their experiences?

                            SF

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              I think it is best said that Jumbo Tosai will eventually be caught up by their smaller siblings sooner or later. But what is the crazy thing about buying Jumbo Tosai that your paying for a faster earlier growth that will slow down once the koi reaches a certain size. I mean I am not knockin the whole Jumbo thing, it's just that when a dealer says that this x amount for Jumbo Tosai compared to this x amount for Tosai, thou smaller from the same breeder. I think I would go with the smaller siblings and maybe have enough to buy a couple compared to the price of one Jumbo Tosai. With the koi's energy focus on growing when will the hobbyist step in and start to control the growth and start to control the quality of the koi. Honestly, it's one thing to have Jumbo Koi, but if the quality ain't there I don't know how a true koi hobbyist could not take overall quality to size.
                              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                              Comment

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