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  • Bottom Drain or not?

    Hi all!!

    I'm in the process of building a new house so I must also build a new koi pond. I am building a circular pond that will be 12' in diameter and 4-5' deep. The local pond shop said that I wouldn't need a bottom drain if I had a skimmer and a filter in the waterfall. What do you guys recommend? I have 6 8-12" koi and 3 4" koi.

    Thanks for any info!!
  • #2

    Originally posted by myrubi04 View Post
    Hi all!!

    I'm in the process of building a new house so I must also build a new koi pond. I am building a circular pond that will be 12' in diameter and 4-5' deep. The local pond shop said that I wouldn't need a bottom drain if I had a skimmer and a filter in the waterfall. What do you guys recommend? I have 6 8-12" koi and 3 4" koi.

    Thanks for any info!!
    I recommend that you NEVER listen to the local pond shop again. That is some of the worst advice I have heard. You must absolutley have a bottom drain and a skimmer and a really large filter (not in the waterfall) and several return lines (TPR's). Please do not build until you have all the information you need.

    Comment

    • #3

      Bottom Drain or not?

      I agree with Russell. I built my 1200 gallon pond last year and totally regret not specifying a bottom drain. I currently have a submersible pump feeding a Ultima II filter that discharges into my waterfall.

      Anyone that would claim you do not need a bottom drain for a Koi pond does not know what they are talking about. I am now getting quotes to expand my pond to 3500 - 4000 gallons with two bottom drains.

      Comment

      • #4

        I've priced out a submersible pump that goes inside the filter along with the UV light. I believe that I can still add a bottom drain to this system. I still have time to figure this out. I'm not breaking ground on the pond until May 4th. Any advice would be appreciated. I do have background in building inground vinyl pools. I am familiar with installing bottom drains. But, building a swimming pool and building a koi pond is a little different. Thanks again for any help as I am still an infant when it comes to koi.

        Comment

        • #5

          rubi04

          The advice you were given is typical of "fish stores" and landscapers. It's based on a specific type of pond which most all serious koi keepers have defined as "a toilet bowl"!!

          Russ Peters is a General Contractor who has built some really nice ponds. My partner and I also build ponds. This is not an advertisement but just a bit of sound advice from someone who does this work professionally. YOU MUST HAVE AT LEAST ONE BOTTOM DRAIN. Simply adding a submersible pump inside a skimmer does not a filter make. I have retrofitted at least 20 of these type ponds. Most after only the first year or two of operation when the customer realizes they got ripped off in the first place. Now they have to spend more than the original investment to rip out the original pond in the most extreme cases and install a "proper" koi pond with the right plumbing to do the job.


          Don't be too hasty, rushing into the project without some sound advice. You'll get lots of it here if you want it. It may be a little overwhelming at first but there are some really great folks here who can help you to do it right the FIRST TIME!

          One other noteworthy suggestion, stay away from building a pond with "ledges for plants". It simply makes your pond become a smorgasbord (sp) for predators. The walls should be vertical and the pond is recommended to be a minimum of 3-4' but 4'-5' is even better.

          Good Luck. Remember, we're hear to help if you need it.

          Mike

          Comment

          • #6

            Originally posted by myrubi04 View Post
            Hi all!!

            I'm in the process of building a new house so I must also build a new koi pond. I am building a circular pond that will be 12' in diameter and 4-5' deep. The local pond shop said that I wouldn't need a bottom drain if I had a skimmer and a filter in the waterfall. What do you guys recommend? I have 6 8-12" koi and 3 4" koi.

            Thanks for any info!!
            i would go 7-8 ft deep with bottom drain(s).

            Comment

            • #7

              04-

              None of us will tell you that a bottom drain isn't neccessary; it is. The folks you are talking to may call us nuts. Yep. So nutty we have good ponds.

              A bottom drain doesn't hook up to the skimmer.

              If you are ready here are two maybes- order KoiKichi by Peter Waddington. Pay for rush delivery.
              Or, go to the show in North Carolina May 4th, and learn something there. Southern Koi Expo

              Your contractors will not like this. I am one also. Houses, not ponds.
              Mickey the windowman, the world is a very big place.

              Aquitori says Keokoi says "even sun shines on dogs ass..." so I say... Buy Ugly Early.

              Comment

              • #8

                I thinks it covered above, but even if it were a small water garden I would put in a bottm drain. Why, ease of cleaning
                Sloped side are a consideration too.

                But if anyone ever tell you not to put something in which will make it easier.....get another opinion.

                But that is only my opinion
                Koi Wrangler
                CKHPA

                Comment

                • #9

                  There is a knowledgeable koikeeper in Lexington... Dale Torok. He was a regular on this board until a family tragedy focused his attention elsewhere. See if you can locate him, or maybe one of our Kentuckians will PM you and arrange something. You should not let an artificial timeline control. Have confidence in your plan and then focus on the timing.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Mike...right premise...wrong description

                    Koiczar
                    The advice you were given is typical of "fish stores" and landscapers. It's based on a specific type of pond which most all serious koi keepers have defined as "a toilet bowl"!!
                    Actually all ponds are toilets.......at least the ones with bottom drains are constantly flushing instead of being an outhouse with the feces simply mounding up on the bottom.

                    I heard the owner of a large aquatics company address a banquet and actually say that bottom drains were not needed. I rose my hand and asked him if he flushes the toilet at his home or not.

                    Steve
                    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
                    CKHPA

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Hi myrubi04,
                      Listen to everyone here...put in a bottom drain..or two
                      We built our first pond in July 2005 and now we are redoing the whole thing. It just wasn`t set up at all for koi. I`d be happy to fill you in on our new pond, we`re in Louisville. We have a great club here with lots of knowledgable members to help you if need be.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by schildkoi View Post
                        Koiczar


                        Actually all ponds are toilets.......at least the ones with bottom drains are constantly flushing instead of being an outhouse with the feces simply mounding up on the bottom.

                        I heard the owner of a large aquatics company address a banquet and actually say that bottom drains were not needed. I rose my hand and asked him if he flushes the toilet at his home or not.

                        Steve
                        Steve

                        You're right. But how technical do you want to get right off the bat with a newbie?

                        Mike

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Great thread! thanks Carrie for volunteering. Koi kichii's should look after each other. Starting a hobby pond correctly is the difference between enjoyment or discouragement. I'm really grateful the question was posted. Most waterfeature stores don't have a clear view of what needs to be done. I don't think they deliberately try to deceive but are definetely NOT on the same page. Mike M....was nice to be reminded of Dale, I think of him often, I miss him and Grif posting. Two very special koi kichii's.....Mike and Russ >>>I think those folks in Sunny California are lucky to have you guys available and always active on this board and willing to help. Nice to have this kind of support.....
                          Dick Benbow

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Originally posted by koiczar View Post
                            Steve

                            You're right. But how technical do you want to get right off the bat with a newbie?

                            Mike
                            That is quite simple ; read some books contact a koi club see some ponds then ask questions as most things posted could be difficult to understand . Trying to advise post by post what is in Koi Kichi book would take a 1000 posts . Following these steps will save money
                            Regards
                            Eugene

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Originally posted by schildkoi View Post
                              Koiczar


                              Actually all ponds are toilets.......at least the ones with bottom drains are constantly flushing instead of being an outhouse with the feces simply mounding up on the bottom.

                              I heard the owner of a large aquatics company address a banquet and actually say that bottom drains were not needed. I rose my hand and asked him if he flushes the toilet at his home or not.

                              Steve


                              ROFLMAO!!! That was a great comment!!! Yeah I'm definitely going to add the bottom drain. Do you guys have a preference on whether I should use a submersible pump or an external pump? Thanks everyone for the advice I really appreciate it. I'm doing vertical sides with a slight slope to the bottom drain. I'm really excited about building it!! I'll definitely take pictures of it's progession. Once again any advice is welcomed!!!!!

                              Comment

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