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  • Norway

    To Dick and all others out there her are the start from Norway. Thought we would start in the hard end and ease or way down. The following date is from a check point monitored weekly by the water authorities, stately her in Norway. This is compiled of data from week 01-2004 through out 46-2004.



    Please feel free to comment in any way you see fit.

    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI
  • #2

    Hello again

    Is presently trying too put something together on temperatures, but it hasn’t gone that well yet. Is like tons off data and a needle’s eye to put it out on.



    We are located in the warmer regions her in Norway. Also some off those that actually have daylight in the winter. We will at the darkest have seven hours off sun if not clouded, witch would bee no big surprise.



    The outdoor pond has just 2” ice at the moment and snow fill at present 2-5”. All in all just as predicted. Its at them moment melting all around, this evening its just around -2°C.

    In this part of Norway we have the last 2 weeks been down at –16° and up at +7°C. We have had snow that at its best was over 20” and bare ground toped off with some rainfalls off biblical proportions. Just hours in length but man how the flow everything when there’s frost in the ground.



    This is for us quit normal. If we travel just a hour further north things changes dramatically and given another hour. It has been stabile temperatures below –5°C for quit some time now. There we find snow starting to get nice “Aspen” style and they are not bothered with this untimely role coaster temperature. In fact we welcome some snow its nothing worse than going bellow 0°C with out it.

    Normal winter problem her in Norway is broken water pipes. To avoid freezing they are never any higher than 1.6 m down I the ground. In our local setting, main at 2.8m and at highest 2.2m before entering in under houses. Last winter with our normal lack off snow (isolation) two off our neighbours got it. They had both forgotten the basis trickle principal. Its like when bellow –20° and no snow please don’t turn off the water (completely) after using it….





    Well if somebody is reading this please comment or ask we will skip in from time to time and see if there is anything that you all what to know about us or our country.
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI

    Comment

    • #3

      Vogata:

      I was speechless! With that kind of temperature, how much does an average koi grow in a year?

      Do you have geothermal heating? I expect most of water to come from snowmelt, What about water being soft?
      Bancherd

      Thai Koi-Keepers' Group

      Comment

      • #4

        Gee, and i thought i had problems. How interesting! I'd like to hear more about how you keep your koi going! I'm so glad you posted! Good stuff!
        Dick Benbow

        Comment

        • #5

          Vogata: Your conditions are so different from mine that I do not know where to start asking questions! We had a cool spell a couple of nights ago. It got down to 52F. I turned off the waterfall so the koi would not get a chill! Seems so silly in comparison.

          A question does come to mind: Are there ordinary wild carp in any of the rivers?

          Comment

          • #6

            I also raise koi in a cold climate. We live on a little pond 80 ac and we have been skating on it for several weeks over 8 in of ice. We just came back from Seattle on the weekend I could certainly keep nice koi outside there.I bring my koi inside for the winter so the outside growing season is short. They are in 60 degree water now and I do cool them to 50 if we go away for longer times. I have wintered outside before but it is too risky. We can get 3 feet of ice on our lakes. Lots of people do winter koi in their outside ponds here they use a stock water heater and aeration usually and things do work out usually. The word I don't like is usually and it it impossible to do something if the system fails think of all that ice to move. I have been keeping koi for 20 years here maybe more.
            The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!

            Comment

            • #7

              Hello everybody her goes nothing.

              Bancherd

              Average growth well there’s a hard one especially when you consider some of the last treads one this BB. Will not try to fool anybody in to thinking we are keepers off any kind off extreme Jumbos what so ever. We are as most out there slowly moving up the ladder. Will post some numbers one this when I get home later this evening, think we have some reliable and consistent data one the last purchase in February 2003 up till present. Before this both blood lines and documentation where not at all what it should have been. Hope you on your side of the world will come home to more data



              Melting snow, hmm. Well if you by this mean that we don’t pump it up your quit right. It does pass to an immense mass off different sediments before reaching the end users. Her follows a line we didn’t get with us through translation

              Calcium mg Ca/l

              Guidelines 15 – 25

              Measured max 20

              Measured min 13

              Middle 16,23

              A German HD of max 2.8 min 1.82 and average 2.24 and yes a bit one the soft side. Please do correct us we are not to heavy in on the chemistry side of things. What kind off trouble dose the enlightened ones (chemical wise) feel that this should give us?



              dick benbow

              Patience please its coming…….



              MikeM

              52 F that would be cosy 11°C wouldn’t it. Well her we will have tap water below that normally for 7-8 months each year. During the really cold season, with in fact tends to move about quit a lot, tap water comes at ~38F. Normally this would bee a 3-4 months thing but never ever in one solid stretch. For us –5F is a normal and expected annual event how far below this well that’s what we all awaits from year to year. A friend of ours in Alta had –76F a couple of years back, but our pond has never seen that. We have more than occasionally seen -22F but luckily not for many weeks in a stretch.



              Ordinary Carp well that all depends on what you mean. Our rivers streams and surrounding sea is as far as the rest of the world means to full of fish. Carps are also a new but stabilised species her and surrounded by other carp family members, broadly represented in both rivers and streams. All including the wild carp are much more adapt to our climate than our bellowed Nishikigoi. Se link for more information http://www.environment.no/templates/PageWithRightListing____2250.aspx



              Sanke56

              If I’m correct that would bee 10-15.5°C? We prefer to keep them higher but that’s the story Dick is waiting for. As you point out we are talking about usually. Been there got the t-shirt. Lost everything. Water froze below the 3 feet (1 m) and pump in/outlet froze. Heater and air at –25 to –30 was not a fair match at all. We worked three persons all night just to understand that there where no way. At the end off the fourth day it was all over. Still many fellow hobbyists her in Norway does as we did and we try as hard as possible to stir them to safer waters.

              Secondly we will point out that the long-time effect on Nishikigoi kept outside (often doubled with cold short summers or as we call them green winters) is a rather pore immune system. After switching side we have healthier Nishikigoi than ever before. The same phenomena occurs all places where we can convince friends to take control over temperature.





              As a hole other topic this is link that can show you some pictures of Norway please enjoy. http://www.norphoto.com/r/eng3453.php
              Tone - Truls -Petter
              Vogata NI

              Comment

              • #8

                I haven't seen any wild carp this far north but they do exist in the US in Washington. I saw some in the snake river on a fish ladder once which flows into the Columbia river in Oregon. I think they may be introduced into those waters. I don't think they survive in the wild this far noth. Some people have introduced specialized carp inot some dugouts and irrigation systems here to control algae both the grass carp and the silver carp these introductions must be confirmed triploid and are sterile. They winter as long as they have enough oxygen and do grow quite large here they only feed above 50F.
                The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!

                Comment

                • #9

                  Dear Sanke56

                  How far north are you located? Her are our location. 59n17, 11e07, Norway. If you follow this link you will find that Cyprinus carpio and Carassius auratus are both reckoned by Norwegian wildlife authorities to be a new and permanent guest off ours. http://www.environment.no/templates/PageWithRightListing____2250.aspx

                  This is to our knowledge accurate as far north as just below Trondheim 63n25, 10e25, Norway and mostly on the eastern side off the mountains (low land bordering too Sweden). This is naturally not a issue when we get up higher and into any off our mountains (most off Norway any way). Around Sarpsborg they multiply and prospered all on their own in competition with other freshwater fish.
                  Tone - Truls -Petter
                  Vogata NI

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    The hardiness of the species never fails to amaze.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Norway is beautiful

                      I have spent two and a half years in your lovely country but only during the periods of January to March. Firstly in 1986 staying in Gjendesheim and then Moving up towards Narvik for the final 2 weeks. I also spent 3 seasons at Lom which was warmer than up in the mountains. I had a weekend in Lillehammer which ended up in a walk from the town centre to Hunderfossen which was an experiance at 2am. Finaly got to Hunder's at 6.30am! But I was not in to the Koi bug that grips me today and my focus was elswhere. However your experiences in keeping fish in those hostile conditions is another branch to this hobby that I along with others from the board would enjoy hearing more of.

                      Jules
                      Jules

                      www.jewelspondsandgardens.co.uk

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        I am located at 59 N and 115 W as far as I can tell from the map so we are very similar North we are a long way from the ocean and have a large mountain range in between to the west so no modification from water. We often have just under a meter of snow on the ground during the winter. This is a naturallly forested area mixed deciduous and conifers
                        The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Hello again and her the weater report.

                          Its just past midnight and we have +2°C and falling, snow down from 4” to ~2” in the last 12 hours. The wind is a bit up so to morrow we expect 0-2°C and more ice than snow. We all expect 0- -4° before sunrise. Water and ice all around.

                          Its on the same line but a bit different scenery. To get your condition we have to go at least 200-300 meters higher or about on hours drive in land, at the Swedish side. A large part off Norway is either above 800 m or costal. In the lower regions we either got golf stream winds and weather or the cold gush from north. In our specific part its more normal with –20° and no snow than more than it exceeding 3 feet’s and staying. Just two – three hours easy driving away we have stabilised cold weather and 6 feet is not unmoral. We on the other hand have over the last 14 days gone from +5°C to –16°C and up again to +2°C. Its been both snowing and raining heavy in this period, isn’t mother nature a nice and unpredictable lady. Well I’m off to work in five hours so ill take some closed eye.



                          To all off you have a nice day/night or what ever and keep on keeping!
                          Tone - Truls -Petter
                          Vogata NI

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Looking at your water parameters it looks like your water would lend itself to

                            Asagi, Shusui, Midori, Hariwake, kikiusui

                            you would have to add some hardness to have gosanke propser.

                            so what are your favorite koi types there?
                            Dick Benbow

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              I always think of Norway being a cold place like here but obviously we have a cold climate -35 C last night and we have about 25 cm of snow on the ground but now I can go for a ski everyday and that is great even in the cold as you have to enjoy what you have the days are nice and sunny and the koi are at about 15C inside the shop and eating nicely they seem happy. Lots of birds coming to the bird feeders. Winter is a time to relax.
                              The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!

                              Comment

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