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Biologist seeks Koi Clubs and enthusiasts wanted

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  • Biologist seeks Koi Clubs and enthusiasts wanted

    We are testing a device that oxygenates water, removes chlorine, bleeds filter air and reduces algae (both green and black varieties) and are seeking several Koi Clubs and breeders around the world who may be interested in helping us out. I won't mention the name of the product here so nobody is offended by this post, but if you're interested, please send me a PM or email. Thank you. Also if you have a 'favorite' product(s) that do these things, please let me know. Thank you.
  • #2

    OK.. I read your two postingz.
    " Work for Biologist"
    Now you ARE the biologist.
    I dunno if English is your first language but.....

    Brian.... Ya watching ???


    • #3

      Tell me it makes my whites whiter and my colors more vibrant and I'll hook you up with my very special south african banking associate to provide funding.


      • #4

        (why is this text gray?)

        Anyway, ok, found the color OFF with the bold ok, think I've got it working right now....yes, I speak a little english. I learned it growing up in East L.A. along with a few other languages and dialects (heh heh). I just don't always spell as well as I should.


        We installed the 'device' on a biologist/koi breeder's pond. It has been marketed to the swimming pool industry for 15 years now and she realized it did a few things we didn't recognize specifically for koi and carp breeders (and next we'll address farmed fish industries) and then asked us to find other koi breeders who were willing to collect data such as:

        1. The unit primes dry pumps so folks with older systems should monitor if this helped them by not having to re-prime their pumps regularly (a pain...called the pool man hose in the pump, close quickly, fire away etc.)

        2. The unit bleeds filter air and while her system was very new, almost all filters have this problem (comes from pump action and disolved air in water which is released under the vacuum/pressure cycle) which, as it accumulates, reduces exposed grid surface area which she said would help decrease bacteria and algae counts compared to systems that constantly have trapped air in the filter. Now this one will be a bit tougher to get real data on since most people (if they are wise) bleed their filters regularly...several times a week and bacteria counts (and algae) can come from so many places so we aren't sure if we can determine a net benefit here except it's handy to have the air bled for you so perhaps with enough sampling we will see a trend.

        3. The unit installs without scarring the equipment; no digging, drilling or cutting pipe and while some folks simply use a garden hose (bad idea if you forget it's on and not UPC compliant) and others have a horse trough or toilet float style fill valve, (great if it was installed when the pond was built), many people find these things fail and if they want to stay within building and planning ordinances, they either rip out the old units and replace them (expensive) or get one of these...or use a surface mounted toilet float thing. We want data/reports from people who install them and what difficulties they have. While she suggested that most people wouldn't have any difficulty doing this, since we've sold them for 15 years we've seen a few mishaps (such as getting the two fittings backwards even though they are color coded) so a little data here would be nice.

        4. The unit oxygenates the water (why she bought one) and we want counts...that is oxygen levels before and after installation over a month or two. We are willing to provide a few free units to folks who are willing to collect all this data to confirm what she said we would find...healtheir fish.

        5. Since black algae is anaerobic and the unit adds oxygen we want to find someone with a chronic black algae problem and see if it does what it did to a swimming pool test we ran; knocked it out of the ballpark (how's that for english?) as in 3 months after installing the unit the black algae was reduced to about 1/10th of it's initial coverage. Since many folks already run aerators this may be a tough one to find but...

        6. Since the filter is working more efficiently and we suspect many algae problems are related to improper/negligent filter bleeding we also want to find someone with a chronic green algae problem/surface scum etc. and see if there is any effect there.

        7. Since the unit allows incoming city water (and recirculating water) to be passed under a high wattage UV light in the unit's clear tubing, we also want to get before/after chlorine measurements as well as bacteria counts (if possible) so we can see what effect the UV light has on killing circulating bacteria, algae and reducing chlorine from the incoming water supply. This test is rather simple (pool kit), but the bacteria counts may require a test subject who is either an MD or has access to someone with a lab locally. Some breeders test their water regularly, some have chronic problems that need to be fixed and some don't worry about it. We are seeking people who do worry about it and are monitoring it.

        As the posts aren't meant to 'advertise' a product I won't mention it here and folks who are interested in more details can PM me. The ideal candidates for receiving a free unit would be MDs who are also breeders, folks who write reviews for magazines (yes, we want a few of those) and known breeders and/or a few club presidents since most of them are well known and respected within their groups and on the national/international scene.

        Does that answer most of your questions on what we are trying to accomplish with these tests? Basic before/after data collection from a large sample population that has chronic problems.

        And yes, according to her, oxygen, reduction of bacteria and chlorine and algae problems all help make your 'whites whiter' as you say and probably even make your koi a bit more chipper and hey...even more sexually active

        ...but we decided against calling it 'Koiagra' although I suppose there is still time for testing that as well.


        • #5

          I repeat what I said before, how can periodic water additions boost O2 levels on a stable basis?
          Black Algea? Anerobic conditions??? Not in my pond, Ever!
          Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat


          • #6

            its not the addition of water that adds oxygen. it's in the design of the jettek...when running it squirts rather large volumes of air through the inlet jets of the pond as part of it's design.


            • #7

              I'm quite sure you are detcting a hint of pessisizzm here.
              May I make the suggestion that you contact Mr.___ % EDIT% The creator of the Matsunosuke bloodline of Nishikigoi and propose your theory and product to him personally.

              Our American Express cards await his response.


              • #8

                ...when running it squirts rather large volumes of air through the inlet jets of the pond as part of it's design.
                Yes but I take it that means it is only working when water is being added?
                Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat


                • #9

                  Ok, two questions here...

                  Q: First to quote: The creator of the Matsunosuke bloodline of Nishikigoi and propose your theory and product to him personally. Our American Express cards await his response.

                  A: we don't take American Express...sorry and actually any biologist who is a koi breeder can usually determine if any food, nutrient or device is harmful or beneficial to life forms. In fact, I'd say most as well...know the benefits of adding air to a pond full of aerobic organisims (like fish) ... I saw an article on using a large grinding stone and tube for this...but I am sure there are cadillac model aerators as well.

                  And the device is NOT meant to replace them. The more air the merrier as they say...

                  Q: it only works when it's adding water?

                  A: I see a devil of an engineer in you coming out and you are very close.

                  Actually it passes a moderate amount of air bubbles all day long and when a pond is low it passes more...quite a bit more and wave action causes a bit too. HOWEVER if the pond is a bit overfull and there are zero waves it probably won't pass any air so the margin is within 1/32 or 1/16th of air in or not...which takes almost no time to evap and so it again begins to add increasing amounts as the pond level evaps/drops more.

                  Q: 3 - do I see the skeptics out there?

                  A: If you told me you had a product that did 5 different things that were of benefit to my pond and I had a few thousand bucks in there I would examine the device in action with a probing rectal scanner and review the feedback from others who have used it before spending a dime.

                  Naturally they come with a 30 day money back etc. and the longest warranty in the industry on this type of device...5 years. They are virtually indestructibe. A gent just bought one in the U.S., it shipped and he wanted me to get him two components that he can get locally, but we thrive on support so I'm getting them up here, sending to him and he said he's going to paypal the payment, but little does he know the receipt/invoice I'll slip into his package will only be about half the cost for this 'hardware store' item.

                  Why would I cheat myself on that? That's a question you have to wonder, eh?

                  Well, first if I got it at a large store it would be about half and I am not driving 30 miles to Home Depot so he can have it for about that price. That keeps people from getting upset over local hardware store prices.

                  Next, I figure we already made a profit on the unit. The $5 or $10 we eat on the difference is worth the customer smile. A lot of businesses do cut and dry invoices; you pay for every penny and having written accounting software for 25 years, you pay a guy like me to count every penny on your computer. What many firms don't realize is that the first time a customer gets outstanding support, I mean Ritz Carlton style (I worked for them too) and/or something free that isn't really cheap, the first time either of those things happen they become customers for life and will tell all their friends you're simply the best.

                  If you had a business model and CPA and Controller and Comptroller it's difficult to wedge that sort of support into the corporate cracks...they'll all laugh at you or chew you out. But if you're the CEO you can damn well play the game anyway you want...I do. I've supported folks for 25+ years so well my wife married me after a year of phone support for a large accounting package she bought for her half mill operation....we joke she liked the package so much she married the programmer...these days she's married to a cabinet maker but that's a different story.

                  At any rate, break out your rectal scanners if you will: I've seen the movie before and I don't blame you a bit. Probe, question, ask away and I do want to stress one very important issue here...and that is...

                  I really do thank you for your interest, time and consideration at this forum. It's been a great place to get to know a few lil devils. Have a great weekend.


                  • #10

                    Shameless, absolutely shameless-----


                    • #11

                      You just say that to make sure they don't sell-out before you get one.


                      • #12

                        actually Steve, I say 'that' because I understand something about oxygen saturation at a given temperature. You can't get more pregnant or more dead. And you can't get more saturated at temperature. You CAN get super saturated at temperature but that is NOT a good thing.

                        So if this 'new poster' is a biologist ( which I doubt- a BS in biology from blankity, blank college doesn't count) I would say he is ignorant of this fact or a hussler- you pick! JR


                        • #13

                          of what act, pray tell JR, should I feel ashamed, either in the way I deliver free goods to customers or banter with the devils within this thread? please do tell...

                          as for being ignorant, actually from 4th grade as a small child through 12th I was the science monitor and went on to 2 years pre-med. I was the guy who set up ALL of your lab experiments in school, tore them down at the end of a class and stored them in the back (and played black jack with the teacher while you did them)...I have a background in science and math that might surprise you having designed robotics, psychological testing software and a device for eye surgery that is currently in the hands of a patent yes, there is a saturation point; do you have the meter that tells you when it has been hit? and if it's not absolutely saturated, would you argue that a little more oxygen wouldn't hurt? where is that fine line?

                          the point of the unit is NOT to provide oxygen or to replace stones/bubblers etc. it is to simply fill the pond on demand automatically. the other features are all icing on the cake and were pointed out to poor ignorant me by the biologist who bought one and who led me to find other folks who would collect data for some little study/report she is doing, not on my unit (although it is part of the report), but rather on several factors to increase fish size and life expectancy, growth etc.

                          I haven't and will never claim to be an MD, but engineer?...been doing that since I was a tyke.


                          • #14

                            and p.s....

                            on the subject of MD's and life care it is not I who should be proud, rather my hat is off to
                            breeders such as yourself and in fact breeders of all species, as life itself
                            is precious; you have chosen a rather noble profession caring for and refining
                            a given species.

                            YOU, not I, are the MDs of sorts and certainly scientists far beyond my grasp in this
                            field and while the marine sanctuary that is encouraged to flourish (quite prolific) under my sailboat might be noble I do not
                            claim to have your ability to care for such a fragile organism as Koi in the hands of man in a manmade body of water.

                            my role here certainly is NOT to say 'gee, no it is YOU who should be ashamed for this or that post';

                            I welcome each inquiry as another perspective from folks who have interest and knowledge of what is required to do the voodoo you doo so well...

                            Your post (and questions on saturation is right on target; of course there is a saturation point and let's assume that most people never hit it and want more oxygen in their water, so we can and should discuss that aspect of pond maintenance, filter maintenance, old pumps etc., but...

                            really the point here is (and was) do you folks see a benefit in a multi-function device and more specifically, who out there is actually metering and testing (via an outside lab) their water on a regular basis?

                            THAT was what she wanted me to find. The rest of this is pure QnA and again I thank you for the Q's, please don't kick me in the A too much.

                            and beyond what you or I write here, there is a customer who just purchased one for a rather expensive Koi set up (based on his specs).

                            after he gets it in and gives me a bit of feedback that will be at the site as well as changes to our instructions based on what he found clear and what needed polish, we'll have a new slice of data to chew on.

                            when I saw black algae (anaerobic) almost disappear from an old ladies pool who used this I was a bit shocked. a pool builder pointed it out first and I didn't really think much of it..yet the pool never was shocked with chemicals and it practically (not completely) disappeared over a 3 month period due to something that changed...and the only thing she did was add one of these. that sort of led us down this 'oxygen' path in the first place.

                            After all, when all is said and done, it is the words and real-world experience from people USING any product that count most; which may explain why I followed the biologist's request to start this investigation in the first place. my apology if something herein offends or isn't 'kewl' by someone's standards...coming from a scientific background I WANT TO KNOW what works and what doesn't. To sell junk isn't in me; my eBay feedback clearly states I deliver what's promised and the support is 200% of anything from anyone at any price; I've done it that way for decades and am damn proud of it (see wife story above hee hee).

                            Meanwhile, I'm just asking questions, getting asked questions and doing my best to answer them honestly. my hope is your questions come from an objective concern over how any device from anyone can help your koi enjoy a longer, happier life.

                            That, after all, would be a common goal amongst this group eh?


                            • #15

                              If the technology does as claimed, and has the "big UV light" as a part of the design, may I assume the working principle is to generate just the right amount of ozone in the unit to both provide more oxygen to the water, and kill undesirable algae, while not building up enough ozone concentration to be harmful to the fish? If a unit has been designed that does all that, then it might meet all the claims posted in this thread.

                              By the way, some forms of algae are DESIRABLE in a koi pond, so if the technology kills all forms of algae, it would not be a good thing for the koi in a backyard decorative pond.

                              I have a similar background to the person who started this thread, namely 40 years of Research and Development experience, a Ph. D in science (call it chemistry or engineering or rocket science, all those apply in this case), numerous patents on useful inventions in the chemical industry, and some grasp of koi ponding technology as a dedicated koi hobbyist. So if you want a useful "independent" test site, write me a private email proposal.


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