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was curious of who looked into mr koi's offer

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  • was curious of who looked into mr koi's offer

    if you followed any of my threads on studing grouping of koi over the years, you'll see i place a lot of value on the excercise.

    Mat at nisei koi farm, had a popular thread here on culling kohaku and made an offer to break the koi into 3 grades and offer a package. I was just curious as to who took him up on that.

    I bring it up because this kind of self taught teaching can make a big difference in understanding what your seeing.

    two years ago, I got my hands on hosokai asagi's, close to a dozen of them.
    I learned a lot from raising that group.

    Last year Dan,sharon and I got a group of study gosanke from Toshio Sakai. We have photoed, measured and kept notes on what we're seeing.

    This year I got a group of Goshiki from Mat that I have done the same with.
    (Mike I feel the same as you, but he slipped in 3 gin rin and 3 wagoi and one of the GR is now my favorite )

    As long as I'm rambling, I thought Mat and Richard ( both breeders who post here) had some profound statements about the focus of sembetsu (culling).
    I hope you picked up on them. If not get back into the entire thread and reread what was said. Richard likened it to a musical note that strikes a chord. Mat was focused alone, not distracted by any other interuption than the task at hand.Some would consider it a zen thing, other's a sense of focus. Because it is a learned experience, you can learn it too.
    Dick Benbow
  • #2

    I have not looked into it, but would be very interesed in doing so. I have always admired Mat's kohakus and it would be interesting to watch 3 of them of different grades grow up.

    I did buy my very first JK Koi last night. I am anxious to watch them grow up too!!


    • #3

      what was interesting with all the asagi's was I had enough knowledge to pick and watch the top 4 develop. One ended up fantastic, female and top show fish. Two more were pretty close but not quite. The one I was watching turned out to be the best.

      With Toshio's fish, this was a chance to learn about his new marusome beni and sumi. I had studied his koi for decades and his new stuff negates much of what I had learned before. Going to the seminar that Russ provided last spring really helped me to understand what was happening.

      Mat's fish (matsunosuke bloodline) was something I was comfortable with tho I'd never raised goshiki before. The 2 fish i am retaining for furthur study, one wagoi and one GR have had their surprises. The GR is quite big and muscular and is about 20 % picker than the others. The Wagoi's last step tightened up
      really well and it has developed a wonderful body confirmation. Now that I look back at the photos I can see it was there all the time I did not pick up on it.

      Note to those who want to try this: Take lots of photos in the beginning from lots of angles. This is critical along with your notes containing your impressions.
      Dick Benbow


      • #4

        Originally posted by dick benbow View Post

        Mat at nisei koi farm, had a popular thread here on culling kohaku and made an offer to break the koi into 3 grades and offer a package. I was just curious as to who took him up on that.
        This was something I was interested in , but was waiting to hear back on this board from Mat . Was I/We supposed to contact him ? I'm trying to put a Club field trip together for the end of Oct. . Would love to see the selections first hand .
        President : GLK&GS
        Officer : NMZNA
        Certified Judge : AKJA


        • #5

          you've heard the expression 1 armed paper hanger?

          Well that's about how busy Mat is at the farm. I don't know how he gets done all that he does but he and his staff work hard at it.

          So drop Tara or Jen a line at [email protected] and ask to make arraingements. They'll be glad to help you.......

          remember the squeeky wheel gets the grease....
          Dick Benbow


          • #6

            Every year I get some tosai to raise up. I very much enjoy watching them grow and change. Last March I got 3 Sanke from Mat. Two were known males (nice, but not great) and one a female with a poor pattern, but decent quality. I knew that all would need to move on in time, but their time with me is well worth the relatively modest price. I'll have no problem finding good homes for them, and might get back their cost. I learn from them, and enjoy them more. Next year, I'll get some more... although the poorly patterned female may stay around another year. I'll see if I can get jpeg photos of them as 7" tosai from Mat; and post before/after shots when I photograph and measure my koi in the Fall.

            Maybe I should try Asagi, Dick. I've never kept one. Maybe there would be one that did not turn dark in my water.


            • #7

              the best asagi I ever got was from Mat. The blue is aqua marine and pattern is show. I do manipulate the water to suit it tho. Mat has an extremely light colored one that went in the mud this spring at around 12 inches. It's shown on his web site. That one is so light it just might work. I have 2 asagi's in my 4,000 gallon pond. Talk about less is more. man they're awsome! Mat's male is up to 24 inches now and the magoi female is 28. Really pretty couple. She has a light powder blue forehead and his is startling white. I love to sit out there and watch them feed in the evening. They've been together 2 years now. Would love to spawn them....Thanks for the encouraging word Mike about what can be learned by getting study groups....
              Dick Benbow


              • #8

                Interesting perspective you have, Dick. ... regarding Asagi. Since I have higher hardness than recommended for Asagi, my tendency would be not to get one of the highly white ones because of concern I'd ruin a potentially special one, and not wasting the price of a better one when I did ruin it. But, of course, it is far more logical to look for ones with less genetic potential for turning dark. Maybe a couple of tosai of different looks to see how they do in my water?

                Off subject a bit... any guesses on the domestic breeder who produced this one?
                Attached Files


                • #9


                  I too have VERY HARD WATER! Gh is around 300. I wanted an Asagi very badly but was also unsure of the outcome of spending decent money on a 3 year old. Well, I talked to Hosokai. He said if you buy better quality, you should succeed - npo problem. I have also been told that if you buy light China blue and make sure there is at least a hint of beni in the dorsal fin, you have a better chance of it maintaining a clean head and staying lighter. I have had mine for two years now and I also got one for my partner (same water hardness). Both are doing VERY WELL. Maybe I can get a recent pic of her. It'll have to be from "in the pond" as I won't bowl anything at this time of year. Too much chance of pulling a scale or two.



                  • #10

                    Yes, Koiczar please show us your Asagi. I want to see how it turned out in your hard water.


                    • #11

                      Originally posted by Flounder View Post
                      Yes, Koiczar please show us your Asagi. I want to see how it turned out in your hard water.

                      Sorry, you'll have to wait til the water cools and the scales tighten back up.Maybe in November, after I return from Japan). I won't bowl anything until then just to take photos.



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