Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Compare Hoshikin Kohaku to Yamamatsu(Matsunosuke) Kohaku?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Compare Hoshikin Kohaku to Yamamatsu(Matsunosuke) Kohaku?

    I recently bought a Female Kohaku from breeder Yamamatsu(Matsunosuke). She is 16.9 inches, was born in 2006, and has what I think is an extremely thick but well proportioned body for her young age. Admittedly, this Kohaku is not extremely high-quality by any means as pattern goes because I have not been out of college long enough to afford one yet.

    Anyway, from the little I know Yamamatsu seems to breed the biggest kohaku of any Japanese breeder overall.(is this true?) Secondly, it seems that at the moment Hoshikin is considered the best Kohaku breeder. (Why?)

    How would one compare the two seeing as how both breeders each have great aspects to their kohaku.

    On a side note, if a kohaku reaches jumbo size how much of an impact does it have on its value as opposed to one that is say only 28"?
    I will try to attach a photo if it will work, Thanks.
    Attached Files
  • #2

    you two,
    excellent first post...
    you provided knowledge and posed a worthwhile topic for discussion....on something i know Nothing about....

    Comment

    • #3

      Anyway, from the little I know Yamamatsu seems to breed the biggest kohaku of any Japanese breeder overall.(is this true?) Secondly, it seems that at the moment Hoshikin is considered the best Kohaku breeder. (Why?)

      Many breeders have very big Kohakus, but the breeder who has raised over 90cm Kohakus and have won All-Japan is Sakai Hiroshima.

      Hoshikin considered to be the best Kohaku Breeder? Some say yes and some say no. It depends on who you ask, I for one think Sakai Hiroshima Kohakus are the best in the world.
      The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

      Comment

      • #4

        Also of note:

        Yamamatsu is the name of the farm that was started by the father of Toshiyuke and Toshio Sakai.
        Toshiyuke is the elder brother, who inherited the Yamamatsu farm. Toshio Sakai moved to Isawa to start his own farm and is actually the one who is famous for carrying on the lineage "Matsunosuke" line - which by the way was originally their sanke keito. Most breeders use offspring of this bloodline in their sanke pairings/breeding to this day. So, in actuality, and in modern day terms, when the name "Matsunosuke" is used properly, it refers to the Isawa Nishikigoi Center, owned by Toshio Sakai, in Isawa, Japan.

        I know where you got this info for your post, but I don't feel it's anything more than marketing to get people to think they have a Matsunosuke koi. From what I have been told, they don't share fish anymore and the Yamamatsu line is inferior to the "newer" Matsunosuke breedings.

        Mike

        Comment

        • #5

          Originally posted by koiczar View Post

          From what I have been told, they don't share fish anymore and the Yamamatsu line is inferior to the "newer" Matsunosuke breedings.

          Mike
          Mike, they have never shared Koi nor have they ever done any breeding together. When Toshio Sakai first went to Isawa he borrowed some of his brothers mud ponds until he could be on his own.

          Comment

          • #6

            Thanks for the info. When a single koi is being judged or bought for that matter once it has developed some, say at least 3 years old does the breeder really hold that much weight in its value or do you only look at the kohaku's attributes and forget about the breeder?

            Comment

            • #7

              I have found this article about Yamamatsu Koi farm on the official website (INPC):
              International Nishikigoi Promotion Center/Yamamatsu Koi Farm

              Any comments?

              Comment

              • #8

                Originally posted by Shigure&HiUtsuri View Post
                Thanks for the info. When a single koi is being judged or bought for that matter once it has developed some, say at least 3 years old does the breeder really hold that much weight in its value or do you only look at the kohaku's attributes and forget about the breeder?
                In a koi show, it is always the koi in front of you as it is at that moment, never the breeder that matters. When buying.....well, that depends on who is buying.....
                Best regards,

                Bob Winkler

                My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.

                sigpic

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by Shigure&HiUtsuri View Post
                  Thanks for the info. When a single koi is being judged or bought for that matter once it has developed some, say at least 3 years old does the breeder really hold that much weight in its value or do you only look at the kohaku's attributes and forget about the breeder?
                  Buy the Koi not the breeder.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by aquitori View Post
                    I for one think Sakai Hiroshima Kohakus are the best in the world.
                    I second that . For overall quality, I do find Sakai Hiroshima kohaku quite unmatched.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Maybe you mixed up a little bit....
                      Sakai (Hiroshima) won the Jumbo race in past 10+ years, instead of Yamamatu (Matunosuke).
                      I consider Hoshikin is one of the best Kohaku breeder.

                      Sakai (H) kohaku are based on Sensuke bloodline and Hoshikin kohaku are based on Tomoin bloodline. (although Sensuke came from Tomoin kohaku originally.....)

                      In the recent Jumbo age, 28" (70cm) is considered a small fish. 32" ( 80cm) is still the high wall to cross for many gosanke. 34"(85cm) is required to nominate a candidate of GC in order to compete 90cm or 100cm of Kohaku / Sanke at major koi shows in Japan.

                      I like your Kohaku.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Here are some of Hoshikin's nissai for this season...
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          some more

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Originally posted by Russell Peters View Post
                            Buy the Koi not the breeder.
                            I happened to come across this thread while searching for something else and thought that I would bump it up for further discussion. I have heard this statement "buy the koi not the breeder" a lot and I agree with it to a certain extent. However, I feel that it would be a big mistake to depend on this statement alone when purchasing potential tateshita or tategoi. My experience, albeit very little, has been that when I buy koi from less well known breeders with very little history on the bloodlines that they use, the koi usually don't pan out as I had hoped. As a result, now I usually start with the breeders before I look at the koi.

                            Not to deviate from the topic of this thread, but I think that the top 4 kohaku breeders are (in no particular order): Sakai Fish Farm, Hoshikin, Toshio Sakai's Matsunosuke, & Dainichi. When it comes to kohaku size, the first breeder that comes to mind is SFF. I don't know how they do it but when you can get a nisai to be 22-24" then you have gotta be doing something right! When it comes to skin quality and pattern, Hoshikin's gotta top this list (Tomoin bloodline influence?). When I hear Toshio Sakai's kohaku, the two things that come to mind are beni quality and scalloped kiwa. Dainichi, well, anybody's gotta love Dainichi's koi. Anyways, these are just my opinion and I hope that others will shed more light on this topic so that we can all continue to learn.

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              All the breeders mentioned have their quality lines. If you purchase with knowledge and through a reputable dealer you will get what you pay for. There are always a few rare examples. By the way dcny, I loved those patterns and beni on that group of kohaku form Genki Koi.
                              Bob

                              Comment

                              All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com
                              Working...
                              X