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Kohaku Babies. Advice on culling needed

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  • Kohaku Babies. Advice on culling needed

    Dear guys

    Attempted to breed for fun on 31st of August last year and the babies hatched on September 4th. Used a Sakai Rose female and a Hoshikin male.

    Finally got myself to take some photos and I would like to share them with you all. Feel free to "shoot" at will with your comments and thanks in advance whatever they may be.

    Baby 1 is now 22cm.
    Baby 2 is 29cm.
    Baby 3 is 28cm.
    Baby 4 is 27cm.
    Baby 5 is 31cm.
    Baby 6 is 27cm.
    And Baby 7 is 27cm.

    I have only kept these 7 for lack of pond space. My question is, if I have to cull strictly, what should I keep and what should be discarded? I have asked this question because I have been informed that I was supposed to keep the smaller and slower growing kois instead of this batch of faster growing ones. Thanks.
    Attached Files
  • #2

    I would keep all of those. Build a new pond.


    steve hopkins

    Comment

    • #3

      The only danger to keeping the faster growing ones might be that males traditionally grow faster than females. But I'm not sure that's true anymore...

      Regarding the ones to possibly toss... I refer you to the excellent articles in the last couple issues of Koi-Bito. I still need to read the current tosai article a few more times before I think I'll really understand -- there is just so much information in there.

      If I had to choose three for myself, I'd choose: 1, 2, and 6. #1 is the clear keeper in my opinion.

      Comment

      • #4

        I don't know how much you have to cut to accomodate your space.
        If you can I suggest you keep #'s 2,3,4,5 and off 1,6 & 7.
        If you must cull deeper i suggest 3 and 5 are keepers for sure.

        Don't be too uptight about size at this stage. judge on the thickness of the beni
        and the clean edges of the kiwa. Sashi should be no deeper than a scale and a half. One i said to off has too small a pattern and another has a suspect red pattern that i don't believe will hold as it gets older.
        Dick Benbow

        Comment

        • #5

          All relatively nice...but like Jason, I like #1 the best. Would be interesting to see how it turns out.

          Comment

          • #6

            I bow to Dick's expertise in this matter; I suspect he is talking about #1 when referring to one having 'too small a pattern'. But I still like the looks of it.

            It is 9 inches already! That's pretty good sized, and I'd like to hear more about why it would go in the batch to be culled? If I had to make a guess, it is because of the smaller bits of hi -- those traditionally don't get better. And the edges could be sharper.

            The others I mainly crossed off because of yellow heads. However, the color could thicken up and maybe the shiroji will improve?

            Comment

            • #7

              Cull them all to me.

              I have to say you did a hell of a good job at breeding.

              For me 7 and 6 would be the first to go. Then I would have to say 4 would be next. Then number 2. I would love to see better pictures of 1, 3, and 5. These koi I seem to like the most of them all. But all of them are not bad.

              Tom

              Keep it simple, keep it straight Koi-Bito.com

              Comment

              • #8

                I too remember hearing that you should keep the slower gowing kohaku - but that was a few years years ago. Don't remember hearing that suggestion since the jumbo fad started. Dick, do you have any comments on this? For me, if it looks good I would keep it for a while regardless of size.

                steve hopkins

                Comment

                • #9

                  Not sure which goes with which number. I agree with those saying to grow them all a bit more, but if I had to eliminate a few it would be the ones with the heavy red heads. At this size I've found that my eye prefers a more elongated body shape, but a disproportionate number turn out male. The ones with a "stubby" look caused by having wider shoulders do not appeal to me, but often turn out to be female. So, I've learned in picking tosai that I cannot choose based on my first impression of what I like. Having to think in terms of future size, etc requires fighting against today's impression. Dick's suggestion of selecting on the basis of beni is a good one I think.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    dtbh


                    IF you are getting rid of some i need some pond fillers for my new pond.???


                    cheeky i know


                    bedskoi

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      See the scallopy full scale edges on #1. I don't trust the beni on that koi. I think in a year or two it will start to break up. Actually the one I thought had too small a pattern was #7. When that koi gets 14-15 inches the pattern will tend to ride up way past the lateral line as the body fills in. to me that doesn't achor the pattern. In the shoulder area ,I like to see a red patch that looks heavy on a tosai and goes below the lateral line to give it stability as the chest of the koi becomes barrel- like .This gives a dynamic to the pattern as an anchor. I have seen smaller koi catch up with bigger koi at 4 and 5 so i don't discard smaller ones that have a nice pattern and a quality thick beni on their very first year.

                      Sakai-san gave me a male tosai for my birthday one year from Rose. He was a simple two step and had that full scalloped pattern. His second year he took tate-goi award at the seattle show and everyone raved about him. He had a female body and looked to die for. A young hobbyists that did some favors for me building some trickle towers only wanted that koi for all his work and material cost. so i gave it to him. Within the month from my water to his, the koi went shiro muji! I forget what the japanese term for that scalloped look is
                      but it may mean trouble.
                      Dick Benbow

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Thanks guys for the very interesting and informative inputs.

                        I have decided to keep all seven, at least for the time being, so that we can follow what will be the outcome of the various "predictions". Meanwhile I can stop buying kois.....

                        I note we have not come to a conclusion as to what, in terms of size and growth rate, to keep at so early an age (they are only 4+months). We all know for a fact that most of the fries will be males but, like Dick illustrated with his Sakai male, that shouldn't be a concern esp so if these males can grow and have a body conformation like a female. Ever seen Kato-san's jumbo kohaku male (90 Bu)? I suppose with this in mind we should still concentrate on the fast growers with good beni (and with some semblance of a pattern).

                        Thanks again guys.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          I'm looking forward to seeing photos of them at 12 months. ....Almost as much fun as raising them myself!

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            P.S. I'll bet on the stubby one with the yellowish head and the Hi beauty mark by her left nostril.(#4?)

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Will definitely keep you guys posted in the next few months.

                              My bet is on #2,3 and 5 in that order.

                              Attached are the parents. Please note a "deformity" on the left of the Sakai Rose (picture taken pre-spawning). I have been told that it could be eggs but it only marginally improved after spawning. I hope it is still due to eggs which had not been fully released as I removed the parents way too early on the day of the spawning (7.30am). What do you guys think?

                              Cheers.
                              Attached Files

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