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Potential Sumi Development in Showa

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  • Potential Sumi Development in Showa

    I would like to post some showa pictures found in the web here for the purpose of judgement, learning and fun.

    The fish belong to the koi dealers .... is it fair to the dealers? Donald
  • #2

    It is common practice on several boards for pics of koi under consideration to be posted for advice/comment. I'd suggest not identifying the dealer or the price.

    Comment

    • #3

      It is ILLEGAL in most countries to copy a photo from a web site for any other use, without the expressed, written permission of its owner. The fact that it is commonly done does not make it right.

      Comment

      • #4

        Does that means if I loose, I would loose more than just my fish? Donald

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        • #5

          I think it just means 'be aware'. I suspect just asking for the opinion is well within the 'fair use' rights.

          Bottom line: if somebody asks you to stop using their pictures, you'd better stop.

          If you simply want to include links to the appropriate fish then it is nice to the on-line retailer but Brian might not appreciate the free advertising for retailers that don't sponsor the website.

          Now if you want to include links to fish at enkoi.com or genkikoi.com I don't think anybody will have a problem with it -- they're advertisers here.

          Hard to say. Also very hard to pick a fish just from a picture.

          Comment

          • #6

            Unless the pictures are posted with a copyright in place then I cant see a problem. By posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB they are making them public, putting them out for public use. If there is a note with them saying not for reposting or reproduction without the owners consent then I would look into it but unless they are copyrighted I dont see it as illegal or legelly binding.

            If it where anyone could simply post pictures of themselves or their girlfriends naked and then sue everyone who saved them or printed them, easy money.

            You could always post links to the pictures in their current positions.

            Comment

            • #7

              Providing the links would reveal the dealers, the subject that I agree with MikeM 100%.

              Let me repost when the "safe" pictures collected .... the desire to share info with pond fellows is still strong. Donald

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              • #8

                [email protected] -- the law is that any picture is, unless otherwise noted, copyright of the photographer. If the photographer is employed to take those particular pictures, then the photos are generally copyright of the employer.

                But common sense tends to control things; if the picture is out there free of charge to begin with, then there should be no charge to using a copy. This does NOT include scanning a picture from a magazine because the picture has an inherent price; that of the magazine.

                And that still leaves the 'stop using my picture' option open.

                I've had my pictures used here and there -- usually folks give credit and/or OK the use with me first. I even have a picture used in the Jan/Feb issue of KoiUSA -- I pre-OK'd the use by sending copies of the pictures to a few folks and gave them permission to use however they wanted as long as they gave credit.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Donald: I think you can edit the title to this thread to something like: Internet Etiquette & Copyright . Then, start a fresh thread about future Sumi development. If you have become concerned about posting a pic from a commercial site, I bet if you ask if it would be O.K. to post a pic to get advice that the dealer will say it is O.K. If they do not, perhaps you'd be willing to share with us which dealers are unwilling to have their inventory critiqued.... of course, no criticism of a site sponsor and no names of a non-sponsor, so it needs to be by private message only.

                  .... just teasing.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    I'm ready to learn something about potential sumi development in showa. Just post the photos and get on with it Donald. There are a zillion pictures of koi on the internet, 95% are outdated, and none are worth more than about five minutes of someone's time. What dealer would make an issue out of such a trivial matter in a public forum full of potential customers.
                    -steve

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                    • #11

                      Genetics and water have a lot to do with sumi development. The most startling sumi I ever had in a koi was a nisai I added to my brand new cement pond and the black just poped out. The koi you look at when I post is going to be 6 this
                      may and her blacks is like watching grass grow. slowly advancing. She comes from Igarashi kazuto and had minimal black on her as a tosai. Usually It takes some 8 years for a koi like her to develop but I think she may rewrite the books.
                      I haven't helped her case thos, falling in love with asagi and constanly tweaking the water to get lower and lower hardness! (lol)
                      When I look for one or two year olds to buy I always look for a display pattern that is strong in the head and shoulders than the tail. Black is always stronger in the tail and is most hard to get the face and critical shoulder to come in. My koi kichi bought a koi GR showa from a pic on ebay and asked my thoughts before he bought. It had heavy black in the shoulder and heavy on the head and black at the base of the tail. I told him to get the koi and set a price limit. All along the dorsal this winter you can see black begining to space itself from the shoulder to the tail tube. The black is coming just as i imagined and the koi looks as if it will be really something in two years! By the way the heavy black on the face is begining to condense and more and more white is showing. Also her black in the pec is beginning to condense as well. I have a friend in Spokane that has purchased one of toshios new sanke and showas with his "new" black. saw pictures last night. I will be watching what these koi do in development. Awsome black! The guy's still the Master!
                      Dick Benbow

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Yes I agree, as we are the buyers of the koi and they would more than llikey love to have their koi pics posted all over the forum . I know If I were selling koi I would be happy and if I could would thank the one responsible for makeing my sales go up. Think about it, it is just veiw for everyone without haveing to pay the price. I hope this happens if I ever start selling koi.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Well, if the Koi happens to be from my website, feel free to post and discuss it. But, if my description on the 'Yume' site is a negative one, maybe best to refrain from it, as at least it's honest! (to the best of my understanding)

                          Mike.
                          www.yumekoi.com

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                          • #14

                            I really like Showa especially the older style. Well these are my two that are about 7-8 inches. Remember I am on a budget! Just starting out so no clue really what to look for. First one - I wanted to buy one first on conformation and pattern second, looked for one that did not have alot of red and was heavy on the black in the face shoulder area. Black that is up looks really deep, Black has come up overlaying the red on the body (Kasane sumi ?), I heard that is considered unrefined in Japan. Really bought it for its conformation and tail thickness. Second fish - I wanted to "buy the red" and take it to the other extreme to compare as a learning process on development between the two. Red is beautiful on this one and really like the tsubo sumi band that is starting to show between the two hi plates, if it develops it looks like it will wrap the koi. (on a side note) Very funny eater starts at bottom and comes straight up very slowly then stays about 1/2 inch under the surface perfectly straight up and down sucking big gulps of water.

                            Lester
                            Attached Files

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                            • #15

                              Hi Lester nice to see your posting again. Hope your making progress with your pond. do you know anything about who bred your showa?
                              Dick Benbow

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