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To strip or not to strip eggs..?

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  • To strip or not to strip eggs..?

    When a female fish gets very gravid with eggs should we strip the eggs? or is easier said than done? What are the health problems or if any if this is done?
    I have heard that some female will reabsorbe their eggs, is this true?
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.
  • #2

    Any eggs that arent spawned naturally are ingested or reabsorbed as you say. Happens to every mature female every year I guess. Are you suggesting that you are thinking of stripping eggs manually from every female you have?? I would recommend leaving nature to take its course unless you have a fish that runs into a problem but I think thats very very rare.

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    • #3

      Originally posted by [email protected]
      Any eggs that arent spawned naturally are ingested or reabsorbed as you say. Happens to every mature female every year I guess. Are you suggesting that you are thinking of stripping eggs manually from every female you have?? I would recommend leaving nature to take its course unless you have a fish that runs into a problem but I think thats very very rare.
      Me personnally, nope. I have a friend whose fish is very gravid and has problems swimming. Plus he thinks she is retaining eggs from the previous season...What do you think?
      The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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      • #4

        I would be carefull with that because if she is not absorbing the eggs then she is more than likely egg impacted and if you try to strip her of the eggs you will kill her. If I am not mistaken which I dont think I am she need surgery to remove impacted eggs. If I were you I would look into this before I try stripping the female of the eggs.

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        • #5

          For health reasons I think females should be monitored and bred if need be.

          Unless you had someone who knew what they were doing to hand strip, I think I'd suggest allowing her to spawn naturally with a male.

          you can loose females that are eggbound. I've always had my best luck at timing some 4 days before a full moon!

          I think koi keepers have to be proactive with koi instead of hopeing the situation gets better. ( it usually doesn't) but like an Dr or person in charge of something's health you must first do no harm!
          Dick Benbow

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          • #6

            On another board I recently saw the suggestion that an impacted female be injected with hormones/thyroid extract, wait two days, and then express the eggs .... followed by antibiotic injections. Letting them spawn before it goes that far seems safer, and a fast for a 6 week period seems even better.

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            • #7

              Well my friend seperated the female and put her in a show tank with two males who are not interested in her...Sorry I dont have pics...What if the 2 males dont do their job? What would be next for the female? Surgery?
              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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              • #8

                From past experience with fish that are inpacted like that if you put them in with males they will kill her trying to spawn her. I dont think I would go that route, but it is up to you. Right now she is sick and I think your best bet would be to get a vet to help you out with this or you might regret that you did not. All I have ever tryed that way have died. Sometimes males my not be interested but some males are aggresive and dont pay her any attention and just do what is natural and end up killing the female.

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                • #9

                  Originally posted by aquitori
                  Me personnally, nope. I have a friend whose fish is very gravid and has problems swimming. Plus he thinks she is retaining eggs from the previous season...What do you think?
                  I would get her to a vet straight away m8. You wont get them to spawn 'naturally' at this time of year. If she is egg bound with eggs that she should have absorbed last autumn then I think the vet would be her only chance but you need to get a proper vets diagnosis first as there are other things that it could be.

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                  • #10

                    A single hormone injection will probably bring her to ovulation. I don't like to use hormones because of the extra handling and anesthesia required. However, the hormone itself is pretty safe. There are several choices of hormone to choose from including human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG), luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH), and acetone dried carp pituitary. However, Ovaprim by Syndel seems to be the most popular right now and is especially effective with carp. For more detail, see:

                    http://www.syndel.com/spawning/ovapr...ion_sheet.html

                    In the old days, any fishery professional could buy the material - but no more. In most places, you have to get it through a vet but we are fortunate to have an aquaculture extension agent who works through a vet and is approved to acquire the hormone and make it available to clientel. If there is a fish hatchery nearby, you might want to check with them.

                    -steve hopkins

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                    • #11

                      haha steve, seems we have the same hormone manufacturer..hcg and ovaprim for me.. works good enough mostly. i use em.
                      still i find some fish species are just hard.
                      (though i dont think its needed in general for koi to spawn cause they go pretty easily with good timing and trigger emulation). namely we can mimick it for a koi to get all sexy easy enough, they do however work well to have them do it when we want, if the fish is good enough to start with!!

                      in the case of this fish you could try an injection and if you do it safely then it should do no long term harm. be prepared to lose the fish though anyway..
                      by all means make youself aware of hormones and what they do, not everyone should want to start playing round with them for the wrong reasoning. its rare that i use them on koi.

                      also youd have to ask yourself if you can get it to a good vet that knows what they be doing and back again.
                      first though i wonder if the fish is really eggbound with last years eggs and these eggs still causing a problem?? maybe there is such a condition OUTSIDE of normal conditions, normally though she would reaborb or push out as discharge any eggs that went too far into the process. how long has she been like this? a fish should only hold onto any eggs over time that are suitable for holding and this isnt where the eggbound term is used.
                      as mike said, a fast shoudnt hurt..most big fish can go a good while without a feed and it could certainly stop her producing more eggs and make her use her reserves up if she has them.

                      ive seen once, a fish that wouldnt breed two seasons in a row, a fish that was as fat as a fool and in the end swimming awkward and we let her go into a good pond thinking the worst and she came good, however this wasnt a prize fish and i still thought it was not just eggs but something else.
                      fish can have swim bladder problem amongst other also. ive cut a few open to find out what made them that way..sometimes a watery gooey mess of blown up swollen kidney and eggs are ok, sometimes eggs are not present at all.
                      think about these things first and do a check on her eggs. she might not even have eggs to be mating with. hence no mating!

                      maybe if a fish that has ovulated and gotten real fat within a few days as a result and still not released anything, ussually over time and proper conditions she can come back from this anyway.. but i have stripped them out before to alleviate them. some of those have died anyway... something be wrong there my friend anyway and then ive just worsened it. bad conditioning, bad practises ussually and sometimes very few will even strip out.
                      theyre fat, its only been two days that they grew to a beachball and still they dont ooze free for very long..
                      it makes me think it has a whole lot to do with where i got the fish from and what its been under before i tried to breed it.

                      so i think by now she wont strip real well for you under hormone administration unless shes ok in the egg department anyway.

                      sometimes it is male not being interested, strong enough or even him spawning early.oops!. it happens!!! MANY THINGS CAN BE NOT RIGHT.
                      think of what the fish went through on its journey and the answer should be found there.
                      sometimes the pathway (in the brain of the fish) from the triggers to hormone production gets wrecked or stressors overide.
                      this can still occur in fish given hormones, i mean to say that if shes real crook and stressed the hormone may not work anyway.
                      what hormones do is bring them up to spawning state in fast time. the good egg will ripen, ovulate and become "loose" they should spawn so called naturally with a male then but if not they can be stripped...and it requires timing!!!! often a hard fish requiring stripping will have a poor fertilisation rate.
                      why? probably because the eggs in front where ok and near ready and the ones at the back where a fair way off. probably because the hormone aint magic to beat slack practises.. THINGS NOT BE RIGHT... generally good condition koi will go good anyway hormone or not..
                      its funny but i will use a hormone if i am in real need of a spawning and things arent looking good for it naturally.

                      but if shes that sick, still i wouldnt pair her up, and first i would do a check on her eggs, first and foremost, that wont cost you much.
                      that means knock her out, flip her up, send a tube up her and suck on the end of the tube until you get an egg sample. while your at it you could give her a feel and slight squeeze to see what she has to offer. be gentle to medium strength cause id say sheel give you nothing and thus theres no need to blow her eyes out!.

                      IF she has proven eggs of decent size and quality to spawn you could use a hormone to spawn thereby reduceing her gut size, make a good male available and have the conditions right also so to spawn naturally, to help her along.. and remember hormone will only work for any eggs that are not too far gone.

                      anyone from syndel feel free to dicuss these matters further..

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                      • #12

                        You're right. She should be tubed first.


                        -steve hopkins

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                        • #13

                          Thanks Aquitori for helping me with this situation with my Kujaku, and thank you everyone for your replies.

                          I am going to try and find a vet here locally that can do a ultrasound, find out what is going on with her, and hopefully fix the problem whatever it is.

                          I will try and keep everyone posted on our findings.

                          Jeff

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                          • #14

                            Originally posted by dunkel
                            Thanks Aquitori for helping me with this situation with my Kujaku, and thank you everyone for your replies.

                            I am going to try and find a vet here locally that can do a ultrasound, find out what is going on with her, and hopefully fix the problem whatever it is.

                            I will try and keep everyone posted on our findings.

                            Jeff
                            Jeff no problem, always remember when in doubt take it to the board ....I hope you got enough opinions here to help your Kujaku out.
                            The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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                            • #15

                              I am going to print this post and bring it with me.

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