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  • Secondary Hi

    Several of our 2 year old koi are developing this problem.
    Has anyone any advice on how to select future koi with less chance of developing it?
    Will it go away?
    The koi are from Momotara, Sakai and Muryama. 3 are Sanke and the last is a Kohaku.
    I have never had this problem before so I am wondering wether food has any part to play, or was last year just a bad year.
    Thanks
  • #2

    HI

    I also have a Momotaro a Sanke, which as got what I think is Secondary He it appeared since last year I do not think it the koi food. As none of my other koi has shown the same sine’s

    This is my example of what I think Secondary He is the orange mark on his face and on the pectoral fins



    I also would like an answer would one of the Momotaro experts please give us an answer it would be appreciated



    I also found a article in koi bito which may shed some light



    But I would also like an answer this koi cost me a lot of money.



    Thank you

    Jenny
    Attached Files

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    • #3

      Secondary Hi used to be very prevalent in sensuke bloodline koi.
      many times they would appear during a koi's second year and you'd see the red under the skin but it would never appear on the surface. so the koi never finished!

      red that is on the surface can be water or feed related.
      Dick Benbow

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      • #4

        Another reason I can think of, which I suspect is very possible, is that many of the kois that we get may have cosmetic surgery done on them before they are being sold. In time the hi returned as this ugly secondary hi.

        I know for a fact some breeders have their own "surgical" department and the "surgeons" are paid a handsome sum for their expertise. On the business side of it, ethics aside, it makes sense for them to have one as the price of a cosmetically-enhanced koi will eventually be very much higher. We as hobbyists are at the receiving end if we are not too careful. We sometimes are not enjoying the "natural" beauty of our kois, aren't we?

        Good luck.

        Comment

        • #5

          Thanks for your repies.

          With the Tancho I can well believe it would pay to cut a perfect round spot so we deliberatly went for one with a less than perfect spot! Guess the surgeon had an off day?
          The other Kohaku has it very low down on its cheeks if we did not have a window you would be unaware of it, this is very underlying so hopefully a change of diet may help.
          The Sanke again if we did not have the window you would not notice it as it is below the lateral line and started as a stray red scale now spreading.
          Just a bad year I guess.
          Dick could you let me know which breeders use the Sensuko line or point me to a link please as I get a lot of pleasure growing small koi on and would like to avoid this line if possible in the future.

          Comment

          • #6

            just some breeders

            Its very difficult to establish what breeders use which bloodline as a breeder may just have one sensuke parent koi. male or female. for example Igarashi Kazuto has sensuke and Dainichi parents for Kohaku. Torazo has several sets of parent koi for kohaku Manzo-sensuke-Dainichi. Miyatora also as well uses sensuke bloodline kohaku. To avoid these breeders because of a chance of secondary Hi is not the right . It could be the quality of koi purchased unfortunatly, as with growing small koi in general many will not develope how you wish. And koi from such breeders as kazuto Igarashi are of exceptional quality.

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            • #7

              I had secondary hi develop on several of my fish some years back. At the time I was feeding a paste food on several occasions during the week and I was adding spirulina to it. I firmly believe that this was the cause.

              The secondary hi appeared mostly on the head but also in the pecs. Two or three small koi were ruined. BTW - It only seemed to adversely affect the smaller ones.

              But there was one bit of good news. A Shintaro Sanke that I had, that had always had a kanoko patch on the shoulder also developed secondary hi on the head like the others. However, this retracted and the kanoko patch solidified into the adjacent beni patch and the hi on the head receded into a moustache like pattern.

              rgds BERN
              South East Koi Club

              Comment

              • #8

                Thanks for the replies everyone.
                I think we will change the food and then wait and see for another year.
                Bern did the problem resolve when you changed the food or once the Hi is up it stays?
                Simon we appreciate the gamble taken with small koi but we get a lot of pleasure from watching the babies develop. Dreaming how the may turn out, sometimes we like to think we have got it nearly right. This one we bought at 7" Here is a photo taken 18 months later at just over 16"

                http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.h...2kohaku32.html

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                • #9

                  The smaller koi were ruined. Their shiroji was stained forever.

                  The paste food I was using was Kusuri Wheatgerm and I was using it to feed at weekends in the early part of the year when the temperatures were lower.
                  This particular paste food (the Wheatgerm one, not the growth) is particularly glutinous and it wasn't taken as readily as their other paste food was so I tried altering it. I added clay to try and dry it out a bit, probably more for my benefit, and I noticed that there wasn't any spirulina in it, so I added some. I guess I overdid it a bit.

                  rgds BERN
                  South East Koi Club

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                  • #10

                    Bern ours would neve take the Kusuri wheatgerm paste food unless we mixed it with the high protein, so have stopped using it. If we have ruined last years baby koi it was an expensive mistake as we trialled the Saki Hikari multi season and that was dear enough without ruining the fish too! I try to avoid food high in spirulina but was persuaded to try the Saki, oh well, we all learn by our mistakes. It has been OK'ish with the older koi but to be honest even they are not as white as in previous years so back to their normal food I think.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      I've been using Hikari Multi-season as part of my feeding regime for exactly a year now. In fact I have been feeding it exclusively since January, prior to that it was just a part of the mix with Hikari Wheatgerm (and Excell during the summer). I haven't noticed any secondary hi appearing.

                      Interestingly, several of my smaller fish now are from Momotaro.

                      The earlier tiddlers that I dyed were all Matsunosuke lineage, two from Isawa, one from Yamamatsu and of course the larger Shintaro.

                      I'll keep my eyes open.

                      rgds BERN
                      South East Koi Club

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        2 of ours affected are Momotara, not around the face but stray scales appearing below tha lateral line.

                        If we had just large koi I would continue with the Saki but not with the small ones. Back to food with as few additives and enhancers as I can find for these.

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