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Pond returns versus Good Body Shape

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  • Pond returns versus Good Body Shape

    I am new to the Koi hobby and is currently planning a 25000lt pond with outside measurements of 5.2 x 2.4 x.2.2 due to space constraints.
    I own a few above average Koi with growth potential and would like to create a good environment for future growth. Part of my planning is a Nexus 300, Easy Pod, Trickle Towers, and Air Dome Bottom Drains.

    I am getting mixed signals from my fellow Koi Keepers re the question about pond returns, top, mid and bottom for the purposes of Koi exercise by means of a timer.
    Some view that the piping will contain anaerobic pathogenic bacteria over a period of time, due to the system not running fulltime. Some suggest that with the help of valves the system is changed from a pump flow to a suction system via an alternate line when Koi are rested. My question is if this is still practiced by Koi keepers today or is this method not important to achieve good body shape? Is the pond to small to create too much current? Does the air dome play a role in achieving current and body shape?
    Bobby Matthee
    _____________________
    Koi-The Art of waterkeeping
  • #2

    A lot of questions there Bobby. First and foremost is the domes on the bottom drains. Far more current is created from these (under typical installation) than from the pump's return lines. That being said, the returns, as TPRs are used to twist the currents created by the air domes creating a more efficient draw to the drains for the solids. As for dormant lines goinf stagnent, just leave the vales cracked a tad and thus the water does not stagnate.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

    Comment

    • #3

      Bobby,

      I think that if those measurements are in feet, the first feedback you should have gotten was about your pond dimensions. Koi, being riverine carp, need serious room in both horizontal and vertical planes. A depth of 2.5 feet is not so good for koi. For koi, please go at least 4' with 6 being even better. You can not build a pond too deep for koi.

      Please consider that goldfish might be a better choice for such a contained area. Nothing wrong with a nice goldfish pond!!!
      Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

      Comment

      • #4

        Originally posted by MCA View Post
        Bobby,

        I think that if those measurements are in feet, the first feedback you should have gotten was about your pond dimensions. Koi, being riverine carp, need serious room in both horizontal and vertical planes. A depth of 2.5 feet is not so good for koi. For koi, please go at least 4' with 6 being even better. You can not build a pond too deep for koi.

        Please consider that goldfish might be a better choice for such a contained area. Nothing wrong with a nice goldfish pond!!!
        I believe those are meter measurements.

        Grant

        Comment

        • #5

          Per other thread, it isn't 2500 litres. It is 25,000 liters.

          Comment

          • #6

            OK measurements in meters and volume of 25,000 liters are much more like a koi pond. In feet that would have been a nice goldie pond.
            Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

            Comment

            • #7

              Thanks Guys, trust me to project my new small pond even smaller, I am so used to hear that my current pond is only 10,000lt, Comments like why is your koi swimming in your "settlement chamber"

              YES MY NEW POND WILL BE A MIN OF 25,000LT LOL
              Bobby Matthee
              _____________________
              Koi-The Art of waterkeeping

              Comment

              • #8

                just for the sake of discussion, I have a friend of mine who dug her pond to 12 feet deep in an effort to gain volumn. I was totally impressed within one year, the impact it soley had on body shape alone among her
                existing koi. ( where you could see cause and effect )

                So while we can discuss efforts to create currents for excercising etc, if you'd have seen what I saw in just one year, you might be thinking along some additional designs utilizing depth towards creating body shapes.....That's not to say that depth of it's own is the central focus, but it definetely plays a part!

                Be prepared however to seine your pond when it comes to catching your koi.
                a handled net long enough to deal with these depths cannot keep up with the speed of the koi, so the gap has to be narrowed to create some "sitting ducks"
                Last edited by dick benbow; 09-03-2008, 09:19 AM. Reason: spelling
                Dick Benbow

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by dick benbow View Post
                  just for the sake of discussion, I have a friend of mine who dug her pond to 12 feet deep in an effort to gain volumn. I was totally impressed within one year, the impact it soley had on body shape alone among her
                  existing koi. ( where you could see cause and effect )

                  So while we can discuss efforts to create currents for excercising etc, if you'd have seen what I saw in just one year, you might be thinking along some additional designs utilizing depth towards creating body shapes.....That's not to say that depth of it's own is the central focus, but it definetely plays a part!

                  Be prepared however to seine your pond when it comes to catching your koi.
                  a handled net long enough to deal with these depths cannot keep up with the speed of the koi, so the gap has to be narrowed to create some "sitting ducks"
                  Dick,
                  I agree that depth helps immensly with body shape. Dan and Gene's pond, at 10" in depth grows koi better than any other pond that I have seen. But it is not depth alone. Couple that depth with appropriate currents and husbandry skills and you have a winning combination. But like almost anything else, their are tradeoffs. With depth comes complications in netting the koi as just one issue.

                  Remember, "It's a system."

                  Steve
                  The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
                  CKHPA

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    If you can not create enough depth, can you compensate by creating stronger currents for them to swim against?

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Originally posted by oldslugger View Post
                      If you can not create enough depth, can you compensate by creating stronger currents for them to swim against?
                      Yes and no. You can create them but they may or may not swim in them depending on how they are set up. In addition, and although crrents help, area (depth) and the freedom of movement also comes into play.

                      Steve
                      The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
                      CKHPA

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        And horizontal current will not help the koi exercise the swimm bladder and muscles used in changing depths. Vertical depth and current (such as created by air diffusers) can do that.

                        This goes back to koi being riverine carp large temperate (4 season) waters. They are not tropical fish from shallow ponds (like most aquarium fish).
                        Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          I am a little bit concern with the netting as I will only be able to reach pond form 2 sides, other sides will form part of a wall and glass enclosure. I feel the deepest I will be able to cope with to be 8.2 feet

                          It's now my understanding that with the depth of 2.5 or 8.2 feet plus Air dome, that this would assist with body shape without the use of jet returns that create horizontal current. Bakki & Trickle filter returns will be via a 1 meter "film" water drop.
                          Bobby Matthee
                          _____________________
                          Koi-The Art of waterkeeping

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Our pond is 10'x16'x8'. I use a siene to bring the koi to one 10'x8' half. Then the long EA net handle lets me herd the koi from anywhere in half the pond.
                            Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Originally posted by schildkoi View Post
                              In addition, and although crrents help, area (depth) and the freedom of movement also comes into play.
                              Steve
                              Intresting topic, does dimensions of a pond play a role in body shape. For example comparing two ponds of simular literage, which pond would be better to grow and maintain koi of 70cm+ in. Lets say both ponds have a high turn over rates of 200%, both have current and both have 1 air diffuser.

                              1. 3.5m (L) x 3.5m (B) x 2.5m (D) (30 625 L)
                              2. 6.5m (L) x 2.5m (B) x (sloping depth 1.5m - 3m - average 2m) (D) (32 500 L)

                              Would (1) result in more obese type koi or koi with bad body shape due to the lack of room for movement compared to (2)?

                              Thanks

                              Wayne

                              Comment

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