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Most memoriable koi show moment.

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  • Most memoriable koi show moment.

    I still can remember the first show I entered, it was really funny....Being the fun guy I am I went drinking that Friday night. Completely forgot about the show that Saturday morning. Mind you I had a hangover and felt sick, so I prceeded to net RP and I intended to bring my Green Chagoi, but got dizzy after bagging RP, so I went to the show with one fish.....I get to the show site around 8:30am they tell me to float my fish, I go to the tank to see it's a 8ft show tank. I was really embarassed, because I got this show tank for one fish. To make it worst Ken Gray was like "One fish?" and everyone was like where's your net and bowl? I was truely the show rookie!!!! Well to make a long story short everyone was cool, we all laughed at my rookie mistakes me more than anyone else...But in the end I more than anyone else was surprised the "rookie" took home Young Champion with one fish in the 8ft show vat.
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.
  • #2

    I remember you saying that you couldn't catch your other fish. Btw, this was the first show I'd ever attended too.

    My 'young champion' moment was with a ringer my wife bought on the morning of the show from Rob. This was the first show I'd entered too. My wife was eyeing a number of fish and had her heart set on this GR Showa plus a little kohaku. I liked a tosai tacho sanke.

    Since we were an hour from home I got the bright idea of just getting another show tank and entering the fish in the show. A Q-tank away from home. Pretty easy since I was also handling registration for the show. So I round up some of the benchers and am directed to a tank.

    I forgot about the bowl and net requirement. So my wife had to go get those.

    The tank was earmarked for the GC to be shown in once the GC was chosen. Ooops. But nobody told the benchers that.

    So here's the really embarassing part -- my wife's fish get Best in Size and Young Champion. All of my fish get squat. I'm still trying to beat that....


    • #3

      Jason that was my second show....My first show Tom Lai brought my Beni Kikokuryu to the San Farncisco Flower and Garden Show. It won a friendship award in fact that is where I met Jeff Dunkel that was both our first show. I thought bringing fish was easy but I was wrong when I did it by myself.

      By the way is it possible for a fish to win Young Champion, Best in Size and 1st place? Cuz I have those ribbons they handed out to RP. Just wondering....
      The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.


      • #4

        Well, you can talk about awards at your first show, but I remember fish poop!

        I had fasted my fish for 5 days before the show, but the algae on the walls of the pond was thick enough to provide a lot of grazing. My show tank had the filthiest bottom of any. And, the guys who showed koi for many years had pristine tanks .... so I went looking for a fine net to get the algae poop out. But koi show vendors do not sell fine mesh nets, they sell koi nets, of course. After some hours, I found a "fry net" .... at a ridiculous price. I then spent 2 days netting out the algae poop every couple of hours, except, of course, when the judging was taking place. I learned that after only eating algae for 5 days, it takes 48 hours during warm weather for my koi to empty their systems.


        • #5

          Originally posted by aquitori
          By the way is it possible for a fish to win Young Champion, Best in Size and 1st place? Cuz I have those ribbons they handed out to RP. Just wondering....
          Depends on the show. The software I use, and most judges from what I understand, want to do a 'bump' or 'advancement' method -- a fish gets 'best in size' before being in running for '... champion' and a new 'best in size' is chosen.

          I think with smaller shows and some judges the preference is pure merit. If some fish just aren't good enough for a first place, then there is no first place in some groups. Ditto for bumps to best in size, but I'm guessing most shows have enough quality fish where it is only the 'ribbon' awards where it matters.


          • #6

            the AFKPS of '02...well whichever started with brett and Joe giving the Friday nighter.
            I had walked around all day veiwing it all...and had enjoyed MYSELF.
            I had gotten wind of the special friday night speakers. i had planned on going home early friday, and coming back for the speakers on Saturday; Not having a room for the night. But I heard how all these koi people would be sitting around chatting, and what a great event it was. So i made the Wife stay with me and we went early to talk koi over a beer.
            I got there at the time posted for the happy hour before the Speakers. Got my $4 beer and sat near the "front" the wife and the bartender (well the bartender was at the back).
            Every so often a Koi person would stick there head in and look at me and the wife and then scowl and leave (it should be understood that no one really knew me then. Now i understand when that behavior is done. and am usually thankful for it)
            People stuck their head in and left, maybe 15 times until one guy came in got a $4 beer and actually sat down with me and the woman who thinks she is married to me. he was pretty friendly, self-deprecating, and enjoyable. i don't remember one thing he said while we sat there. But as soon as he sat down the crowd started wandering in, and they sat right next to or at my table with me and this guy Not like I expected the scowlers they had been 30 minutes earlier to do...and they changed my mind, i quit thinking koi people were cold fish. THESE people gather round the table and acted as if they were old friends. And I was enjoying all the comaraderie...but then the "Speakers" had to the fellah that had come in and started talking to me and my wife cuz we were the only people in there was introduced as "Tonight's first Speaker, yada yada ...Brett Rowley."
            i figured it out PDQ. If you are "SOMEBODY" then most of the people in the hobby will be congenial, if you are "just" a normal person then most of the people in the hobby are too insecure or insensitive, or inept to come up and introduce themselves even if it is obvious that you are a "koi person."
            Everyone wanted a piece of Brett's time and attention. I try hard not to bother the man. But he's a great that is.
            Write him a hateful email and tell him what he did...if he'd have not been a good person I'd have a very different opinion of this hobby....and none of you would have to put up with me.


            • #7

              I was benching a small show for Puget Sound and the folks i was checking in were from Spokane. I'd not met them before and was checking, measuring and confirming categories when I run across ther most beautiful showa with fukerin scales. I said to the owner, "that's from Toshio sakai". i didn't know her and didn't know the koi and i remember how startled she was when she confirmed it was and wanted to know how i knew. I told her it was the better of the two she had entered. ( it was judged second behind her other one) But this was the start of a wonderful friendship. BTW in the next show, the one I had chosen was selected first!

              I have so many wonderful memories of shows but the friendship started at this one made the event very special to me.
              Dick Benbow


              • #8

                that is interesting that the judges are allowed to make the decision as to whether a koi is "good enough" to be "given a first."
                There are two kinds of contests that i am aware of, the competition between the fish that are present, and a given standard established prior to the show...however the decision should rest with the show committee and be established and advertised prior to the show.
                In orchid competitions both are done. The orchids are judged against each other, and judged against a standard. however if an orchid does not meet the criteria to be considered an example of then it is not awarded a ribbon even if it is the only orchid entered.
                After that judging individual plants are pulled to be precisely measured (such things as flower size, number of flowers, length of certain parts). These plants are the best in the show and if the achieve a certain number of points they are given international recognition..not every "Best in show" is pulled, just those that the judges consider to be of a high enough quality to meet the criteria.
                i entered a Phal in the Vero Show 5 years ago, at the request of some of my club members. I didn't go to the show. But was met with a long face by my friends whe they returned.
                They told me my phal got second. Then they told me it had been pulled by the judges for national judging, but the winner of the phal group hadn't, and it was obvious and raised some eyebrows that my phal was the best phal.
                Seems as though the judges for the Phals, had seen my phal and when they pulled the tag they saw at the top that it said "Phal. Hybrid" and never bothered to read the rest of the tag which stated what cross it had been.
                So they did not consider the phal for placement within the show. When a committee member saw that the plant had not placed they asked the phal judges....and the phal judges said the plant was not properly labeled. The judges were shown that indeed it the judges gave it a "second place". So there were two second place ribbons. the reason? The person that had the phal that had been given the first place position had been told already.
                So judges screw up and aren't strong enough to acknowledge their screw up. Even to the point that other judges, other than the phal judges, recognized my plant to be measured for international recognition, much to the chagrin of the phal judges.
                i sold that plant to the president of the club that put on that show for like $30. i didn't want it back. i hope it has won since then. I haven't "competed" in another orchid show.
                i mention this because if judges are deciding on their own that they get to decide the rules of the show it needs to be stopped. And if the show rules don't address which type of competition the show is using they need to. and they need to keep a handle on the judges. ..Oh I can see it now...judges clicking on the "reply" option so they can defend their idea of how koi shows are to be run....Judges Judge. They should not make rules.
                I'm not saying that judges should be influenced concerning how they judge, but they shouldn't interject their agenda. if a show is set up so that the koi are to be judged against each other then the "quality" of a first place is a moot point....I've never been to a track meet where they didn't give first place to the fastest runner because he was to slow.


                • #9

                  thanks for great plant story and I like the runner point about first place!

                  But judges are human, with all their imperfections and perform a necessary function dispite some errors. I remember a few shows where the viewers got to vote on their favorite koi and an award was given to the owner. Phew! they had a face only a mother could love! (lol)
                  Dick Benbow


                  • #10

                    Excellent point, Luke.

                    I like the notion of judging on the day ... the best is the best, even if not so good. Yeah, a mediocre Bekko may win Best in Variety, but that's just how it is. The best way to deal with that "problem" is for show organizers to get more participation (and more Bekkos!). When my local club has its first show in the Fall, I'm just hoping we have a fish in each classification! If they bring them, let them take an award home.

                    As for the "benching error" by the Phal judges, I'd hope they learned to take their time. Too bad they were too caught up in the rules to appreciate what they were seeing. If they had lingered longer, maybe somebody would have doublechecked.


                    • #11

                      I'm kind of trying not to fall of the fence on this one, Mike. I can see both sides of the discussion when it comes to awarding a ribbon or trophy. I think the main thing you have to remember is that the judges ARE judging to a STANDARD. Point is, let's pick on Joe here(even though he does have a nice Bekko). If there are only two Bekko's entered in the show and Joe's is the better of the two, then he gets BIV. Now the secon Bekko is accepted by the benching team as being a Bekko, but in the judging standards it does not meet the "STANDARDS for a Bekko (i.e. it looks more like a goldfish than a Koi and the most butt ugly representation of any Koi ever seen), therefore it is essentially disqualified. I think to save a little face however, the judges don't disqualify the Koi, but rather give it a second or third place. Makes a point, but doesn't disqualify the Koi. I guess the real, question should be whether Koi of this type should have made it past benching in the first place. Other than that, a Koi meeting the standards IMO should always receive the award that is available i.e if it is the only one of the variety in the show, it takes BIV, etc. etc.

                      ROd L.


                      • #12

                        Rod, you raise an interesting point regarding the responsibilities of the benching team. I can readily imagine a metallic koi acquired as a Wal-Mart special, with dirty smudges and low shine. It has been grown to 20" and has a belly that drags. But, it is the only one brought to a show. (Did you count how many Hikarimuji were at CFKS? ) It would be a bit of an embarassment to the show to have such a fish take an award. What responsibility does the benching team have?

                        (1)If there are a couple of Kujaku entered, maybe they decide the smudges place it in Hikarimoyo? Embarassment avoided?

                        (2)Or, maybe they decide the shine is so slight it belongs in Kawarimono? Ditto

                        (3)Or, they place it in Hikarimuji and the judges are forced to give it an award? Embarassment to the show?

                        (4) Or, they disqualify it and send the owner back home with their beloved koi. (They thought enough of it to catch, bag, haul it across town/state, pay an entry fee ....)

                        If the classification is dubious, IMO choices 1 or 2 might be appropriate. But if it is clearly an Ogon, however terrible, then I have to choose 3. I'd never choose 4. Perhaps the best path is for small shows to recognize that certain varieties simply are not going to be entered in numbers, so those are grouped in Kawari or given a classification of their own. Hasn't Mr. Waddinton suggested that the Bekko class should be merged with Kawari?

                        ..... BTW, Joe has to bring his Bekko in perpetuity just so this "problem" is solved the right way.... by having deserving koi win.


                        • #13

                          You know Mike, funny you should mention that. It does seem to me that I have heard of a show dropping a variety because no Koi fitting the Standard for the variety/classificatio were entered (even there were some that claimed to be so). In doing so, I think they may have put any Koi coming close, but not close enough, into the Kawarigoi group. It keeps the Koi in competition and saves the show and the judges a bit of embarassment.

                          The worst thing would be that a show has gone out and bought trophies and no one enters a Koi for a particular variety/trophy. Would a show actually move a few Koi into that category, just for the sake of presenting a trophy?
                          Here's one way out. Think about it. Does the Gin Rin class come to mind? You do have a choice you know. Would the show come to an owner and ask him to move his Koi from Gin Rin to the non Gin Rin class, saying you don't stand a chance in Gin Rin, but you can walk away with a trophy in XXXX!

                          Maybe there is something to be said for not benching your Koi till you've had a real chance to look over the field, if you fall into that last situation.

                          This last part was only for discussion, I've not actually seen that happen.......but

                          Rod L.


                          • #14

                            I'm liking what I am reading, even if we've hijacked a very good thread topic...perhaps a mod could cut and paste us to a new thread...until then,,,,
                            Rod L.
                            At the last tampa Show ( the last hurricane-FREE AUTUMN), I brought a good doitsu sanke. a real good un. and I was told it could go doitsu or normal. i didn't bring it to compete in Doitsu. I didn't even know that was division (maybe it was a ginrin, no I am pretty sure it was this sanke.).
                            So I looked over the sankes in its class size and figured even being doitsu it could win, and the "Normal" sanke ribbon has more meaning. I even thought it could win Baby Cahmpion.
                            the judges agreed and gave it the nod for the sanke small class, but then the judges and i disagreed on Baby Champion. They award a rather plain (IMHO) Kohaku Baby Champion. I didn't mind too much as I had brought that kohaku as well...but really it only came because it kept climbing into the net as i was trying to catch other fish. (pic of both taken day befor the show enclosed)


                            • #15

                              No offense Luke, but looking at those two pictures makes me think 1) the judges made the right decision (the decision I would've made ) and 2) it must have been a small show.

                              My reasoning on choosing the kohaku over the sanke -- the shiroji. The kohaku has better white than that sanke, IMHO. BUT the sanke might end up being a better fish in the long run and that sometimes makes the difference when the judging is close.

                              But it is likely that the judges just didn't want to figure that one out because both fish came from the same tank. Same person goes home with the ribbon .


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