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  • Sanke (Sakai Hiroshima) To Comment

    To further explore the discusion on sanke, attached pls find the picutre of a sanke that i purchase around 2 weeks ago. It came from Sakai Hiroshima - Bloodline is Jack born Jul 2003 and was sold during April 2004 auction. Your comments are greatly appreciated.

    Regards,
    Paulino
    Attached Files
  • #2

    Nice pattern. Strong lines. My concern is the Hi. Between the two photos there has been a loss of Hi along the kiwa edges. There is also a lack of uniformity in the Hi plates. I do not know how this bloodline develops to say if this is typical or not. Some of it could be the photography. The photos indicate quite a bit of growth, which could affect what I am seeing, too. If the Hi starts to thicken as it slows in growth, then she will be very attractive.

    Comment

    • #3

      also mike, the uniformity of the densities bewteen steps in the red is another concern. there should be some consistency there.
      Dick Benbow

      Comment

      • #4

        Paulino,

        You didnot mention her growth. What's her size in April '04, and April'05?

        Comment

        • #5

          Mike, pls explain which loss of kiwa you are referring to since i'm missing a point here . i m not sure if strectching causes the insufficient thicknes in hiban since it should be uniform in all part of the body/ or the shoulder area streches more than the other parts ??

          Hi Dick, its nice to have your comments. i see what u mean by different density among hi plates, i would say the 1st and 3rd step is stronger than the 2nd and 4th am i right ? the dealer actually mentioned that the hi of this fish is not so good when i considering the purchase, however the other fish i m comparing to has more negative points.

          Kiky, at April 04 dont have the size (not mentioned in certificate either). At April 05 the size is 47cm. As you notice the fish is not showing much girth at the moment perhaps due to lack of feeding at dealer's place but i will beef up this fish with high protein food so hopefuly it will resolve the problem...

          Actually my other concern is with regards to the tsubo sumi in the shoulder. It looks like kaneko (dappled) sumi - is there such thing ? will it stay that way or will it developed to be the same as sumi areas in other body parts? i also read somehwere that sumi tends to develop for rear to front ??

          Thanks and look forward to hear more of your comments ..

          Comment

          • #6

            Opinions on this Sanke? I like it, of course I am a sucker for Sanke. Menkaburi is okay, some people like alittle more white on the nose but the pattern is pleasing overall. The beni quality is not consistant but it does tells us the fish is growing. The sumi is not up just yet but it seems to be coming up in the right places subosumi. The conformation is okay, the shoulders look to be pinched just a tad bit, but with careful feeding you can bring it out a bit. But the fish looks to be developing a belly, watchout for that...Looks to be a good buy, I am not goin to ask what you paid for it, but considering it is a certificate fish from the auction means you paid a pretty penny for it. Good luck on your "project" and maybe by October we both can post the progress of our Sankes on the board...
            The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

            Comment

            • #7

              Hi Aquitori, nice to hear from you to. i also admire sanke that display the subtlety from few pacthes of sumi which compliment red and white of the already beautiful kohaku pattern, IF sumi comes out at the right place that is. he3x. anyway thats what make it an interesting project coz after all the best you can do is make an educated guess and hopefully it turns out as you expected Concerning the belly, hmm..., i suspect the water surface distortion is the main culprit there. Here is another pic that show less distraction.

              Sure do i will post an updated pics of this sanke 6 months later. and good luck w/ your project too. Btw, the price is not as high as you expected since it is an old stock and the dealer gave the original price when it arrived as a tosai he said.

              Comment

              • #8

                That is good you got a good price on the Sanke, it's one thing to go to a dealer and spot good deals. Right now I am feeding Sweet Potato pellets to slowly bring up the digestive system of the koi. Then when the weather gets a constant temp that's when I will be feeding Hi-Silk.
                The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Aquitori, here is the other picture .

                  Unlike the states, here in tropic water temp is constant around 29-30 deg celcius hence feeding can be all year around. can u share your experience using hi-silk ? ritenow i m feeding mine mixed saki hikari and momo white part. both are good especially in term of the minimum amount of 'shit' discharged by the fish hence showing better digestion. however, since some people experiencing cloudy water due to excess oil in saki hikari and i suspect the same is happening in my pond then i want to consider another option, eg. hi-silk.

                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Paulino88: If you compare the rear edges of the Hi plates, you will see that in the youngest photo there was a bit of a fringe. In the next photo, the Hi has contracted to provide sharper edges. I am not saying the Hi will fade. I am just saying that it causes me a concern. I would like to know more about how the siblings spawned in prior years have developed before spending a large sum. The uneven Hi reinforces the concern. .... That said, I've been known to fall for koi with questionable Hi because the rest of the package was so appealing. When there are questions about Hi, some with long experience will advise not to grow the fish too rapidly. That is tough to do in a tropical climate! But, you may want to hold back on feeding a bit if you see any further contraction on the rear edges. This is where having regular development photos can be very useful.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Oh, about the Sumi. It is very interesting how it is coming in. It gives more of an impression of Showa Sumi right now, and there is not much of the "blue" effect of hidden Sumi rising up as is so commonly seen in Matsunosuke-line Sanke. However, you have a fish that has a great deal of development ahead. It is hard me to say where it is in development.... whether this dappling effect results from baby Sumi going down, or adult Sumi coming up? Since it was held over in inventory, development will not have been the same as would have been if out in a pond. .... which makes the apparent growth experienced in the past year more impressive. The effect of "holding back" tosai during their second growth season is a topic of interest to me. I was doing a little not-very-scientific experiment with some, but it was disrupted by unplanned events. I still have a Showa that spent its second growing season in a dealer's inventory, growing only a couple of inches. (I've not got my notes w/me, but I think it was from about 9" to about 11".) After a third growing season in a pond, it has doubled in length, over 22" and maybe edging onto 24". Despite the growth, the color is better now than when a 12" nisai. The effect on color, etc of being in a dealer's inventory is not positive, at least among the dealers I know. (Perhaps yours is different?) .... Too crowded, too little food, improper lighting and lots of stress from constant netting/bowling of both the one fish and its companions.... not an environment to get the best results.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Paulino88,
                        Your discription of the differences in the Hi plate is exactly what I saw as well.
                        But in reality, being able to afford a perfect anything is only a dream for most of us. Enjoy this koi. learn from it. things about red you can learn is that dirty conditions, too high a protein content for the water temperature and too high a PH can all have negative influences on koi which have a weakness in the red.
                        Manage this koi. Help it to be the best it can be and you will have benefited it and yourself as well.
                        Dick Benbow

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Paulino,

                          I went to KIKI of Samurai this morning. Several hundreds of koi - tosai and nisai of kohaku, showa, sanke, ochiba, kujaku and tancho, with certificate and without - have just arrived. In case you are interested to have a look. I will post pictures of those I have selected later.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            My concern is whether the sumi is losing or gaining since the dealer didn't reveal the chronology of its sumi development (can't be blamed for that right?). any other koi kichi has any idea on this issue ? however, the dealer suggested to put this koi in hardwater.

                            Hmmnnn, on one hand to enhance the eveness of hi i need soft water while if i dont want to loose the sumi then i need hardwater .. tough choices ..

                            Yes, kiky. pls kindly post the picture so that we can wet our appetite .. he3x My koi friends and i plan to visit nirwana koi this coming weekend hence visit to bandung needs to be postponed.

                            Comment

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