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Your opinion on this Momotaro Shiro Utsuri

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  • Your opinion on this Momotaro Shiro Utsuri

    I needed a break from a pond of Red And White and ended up with a 61cm Nisai Shiro Utsuri from a showa spawn. The dealer had bought her from the auction and among 3 available at his shop. I would appreciate your comments on her and how she will develop. I am actually taking a chance with a Momotaro Shiro as they are only starting to produce Shiro recently. Rgsd Hwong
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  • #2

    First of all your not taking a chance as they've just started breeding shiro's.

    GOOD MOVE!!!!!!

    Anything he does will be first rate. he didn't get into the program without doing his homework. Your bought a great fish! I hope you continue to raise it wisely!

    you are required now to taske pics of this fish and share with all of us as it's journey begins!
    Dick Benbow


    • #3

      Nice Shiro, really like the conformation of it. I think the Shiro has Takeda Showa bloodline and those Showa are known to have really nice gosanke bodies. Would be really nice to see if secondary hi holds back or comes up. Either way nice Shiro.
      The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.


      • #4

        I've heard it said, that his Shiro's finish later, think it was 5 or 6 years of age. Makes them a great Koi to buy and watch the continuing development.
        Regards, Bob
        ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º>
        <º}}}}>< <º}}}}><


        • #5

          Thks fellas,

          Bob, The sumi will be interesting to see developing. This koi does not have the classic solid motoguro which usually indicate strong sumi. I certainly hope I wont end up with a kage sumi shiro..My pond is a proven sumi ground. Throw in anything with a hint of sumi, it will turn black in no time. I have another shiro that finished in only 1 year. I hope this koi's sumi will be a longterm play.

          Aquitori, I dont know much about Takeda Bloodline and not sure if Takeda is in this koi since it is from a showa spawn.. While the front 2/3 of the body appears very stout,I am a little iffy about the tail tube being on the narrow side. Some say that as the koi grow, the tail tube will develop to be thicker. Since you mentioned secondary Hi, I did not choose a sister koi with a really good body and better shiroji and pattern bcos secondary developed on the gill flap. This is a cause for worry. Hope no Hi decides to make a debut.

          Dick, Your confidence in MAeda-san is comforting. Do you or any koi buddies have any experience with their Shiros? Would like to see some pictures of their matured Shiros if you have any. When I say I am taking a chance, I said so bcos, I have no inkling of how their Shiros will develop. So it is like a shot in the dark. Just bought out of curiosty and betting on a big fish that will develop into a beautiful SHiro. I am also trying out a momo tosai showa which has gone into the mud pond. Will see how it perform in 6 months time.

          "raise it wisely"- any tips to share with us?

          Yeap, Will try to record this shiro's progress for all to share.


          • #6

            Very nice shiroji. The pattern is appealing. The Sumi has intermediate characteristics of Sanke/Showa. I expect it will be nice and glossy. The shoulder structure looks strong. The pic gives a hint of your concern about the tail not being as thick as you would like. It is a common issue with Shiros for the back half of the body to be weaker than the front half. This one does not have as exaggerated a difference as is so often seen.

            Like Dick. I'm looking forward to progress reports!


            • #7

              a few years back before people knew toshio sakai bred shiro utsuri my koi kichi bought one. I watched it grow and mature and eventually take first in it's size class at the all japan show. People thought he was nuts for buying a shiro from the guy known for matsunosuke bloodline koi. he probably traded for that koi etc. no, he bred it and now more people know he has em and i see the price adjust so hence my comments.when my buddy bought it no one asked to see it bowled. so when it was by the breeder it sat there and no one said anything.
              My buddy said if no one else wants that koi I do.

              in keeping your shiro stay away from color foods and don't over feed. many shiros are developed from showa bloodlines, some of which tend to pot belly easily is fed improperly. Don't be afraid to be a consistent user of a quality clay product and a good deep pond is preferrable to again maintain a proper shape.
              Dick Benbow


              • #8

                Dick, Like your friend, I am also biting the bullet and giving it a go. While mine will not be any show specimen, I hope she will turn up big and nice.

                Keeping away from color feed will be difficult to do as I have her in a pond of Gosankes. When Kentaro-san (Sakai Hiroshima)visited our ponds recently, he chided us for not feeding color feed all year round. So My koi buddies are taking his advice to see if our kois will develop nice hi without staining the shiro.

                With rgds to feed qty, he advised that for 9 pieces of kois varying in size from mid 60s to 70s, we shud feed Approx 500 grams over 6 meals a day. And in our hot weather, we shud not hope for plumb juicy kois like those in Japan. In warm waters kois do not retain body fat . I have a pond depth of 5 feet but only 16 ft in length which is not very conducive for satifactory girth development.


                • #9

                  That is very interesting Wong. The advice of such a distinguished breeder cannot be ignored.

                  Those 60-70's cm koi must be about 6-7 kg each. A feed rate of 500 g/day would be less 0.6 to 0.9% of the body weight per day. We hear recommendations of 1.5 to 2% per day during the summer in temperate climates where there is a winter dormancy.

                  Kentaro-San is suggesting that you should not allow the fish enough food to build fat reserves because they can not retain body fat in warm water. I assume that "body fat" is fat stored within the muscle fibers. Does this mean that they would have to store fat in the alternate location - the liver? We all know about the threat of fatty liver disease.

                  Our climate is cooler than yours, but there is no dormant period. In fact, koi seem most hungry during winter here. I do not feed heavily and provide a lot of fresh vegetable matter - but only because I am poor and am trying to maintain water quality. I am now wondering if koi can store body fat at our temperatures of 20-25 C. Any insight - anybody?

                  -steve hopkins


                  • #10

                    Steve, I dont know the science behind fat retention. ( if I did I wud be the lean mean machine instead of constantly fighthing to keep trim )One reason for not retaining body fat in warm waters cud be that kois are more active and burn it thru exercise. I forget to add that he adviced that we shud reduce our water temp from an avg 26degreees C to 20 C using a chiller. Maybe kois like all creatures will eat and store fat to fight the cold? This may be true as we observe kois that were brought directly from Japan (cold) to compete in shows will loose their girth very quickly. We used to think that we dont have the skills in grooming kois. Sshhish just wild guesses here.

                    Another thing is, we shud not expect the breeders to tell us their secrets. NExt month in conjunction with the %th Malaysian Koi show, one of the Mano brothers from Dainichi and Nogami will be giving us a talk on showa. I told the dealer who is bringing them in that I would like to learn how to identify sumi on young koi, tosai/nisai that will remin Kage. He looked at me and gave me the smuck grin. Probably he is thinking " where will all these kois go if not in hobbyists ponds!"


                    • #11

                      Originally posted by hwong
                      I told the dealer who is bringing them in that I would like to learn how to identify sumi on young koi, tosai/nisai that will remin Kage. He looked at me and gave me the smuck grin. Probably he is thinking " where will all these kois go if not in hobbyists ponds!"
                      Hi hwong,

                      It would be wonderful if you could let us in on the secret if you found out any



                      • #12

                        Impressive Momotaro Shiro Utsuri

                        It is great to witness such fine piece of Shiro at your warm climate.
                        Taking a break off GoSanke is wise.
                        Utsuri deserve just as much attention, if not more.
                        You are a proud owner of this Momo Shiro!
                        Please help comment on the thread HOW TO CHOOSE A SHIRO.
                        Your selection process come useful to many curious hobbyists.
                        Appreciate your comments. Love this living jewel!
                        Also feedback on Shiro's nutrition for maintaining Shiroji.
                        Madison BK.
                        Last edited by BabyKoi; 06-03-2005, 09:41 PM. Reason: typo


                        • #13

                          very nice , I could only dream of having a koi like that LOL
                          Keep us updated on how the sumi develops, I think its going to be a stunning shiro


                          • #14

                            Keep us updated on how the sumi develops

                            Michael, Thks. I have been keeping a keen eye on her. She has a healthy appetitie and has put on much bulk but not length. The sumi is developing nicely. A month earlier,we had heavy air pollution when the acrid smoke from forest fires in a neighbouring country got blown over here. Then a heavy hailstorm unloded a substantial quantity of acid ladden hailstones into my pond. This screwed up the water and the kois suffered as well. the sumi on this koi turn a shade pale!

                            I will try to bowl her this weekend for a picture and share it with you all.


                            • #15

                              with you indicating your pond and practices get black to max out, I am concerned the head is going to become all black...except for a small circle around the right eye... but that isn't a might go an extremely different direction.... the Head sumi just doesn't seem anywhere near settled.


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