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  • Tosai - Would appreciate some comments

    Hi - I posted some pics yesterday, hopefully these are better. I have about 25 sanke, showaand kohaku tosai that I have collected in the last year, either bought or home bred. Some were aquired at 5cm and are now just on 20cm. they are in green water in a 3000lt portapool and get lots of food, but are growing rather slow.Yes I know I am not the best photoghrapher - but my digital cam is broken so its the cell i'm afraid
    Cheers Quinton
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  • #2

    It seems to me that all of them except ogon are being selected principally by its fancy pattern but not its body flow and quality in respect of a strict meaning.

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    • #3

      tosai

      Originally posted by Super Kindai View Post
      It seems to me that all of them except ogon are being selected principally by its fancy pattern but not its body flow and quality in respect of a strict meaning.
      yes, this is largely true although the body shape is better than the picture indicates in most, some are much more imposing than the ogon - showa is possibly the worst

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      • #4

        I prefer the following 3 in this order, from left to right.



        It looks like the first one has a red eye..not sure but it is of much better quality than the other two.
        The third one has the most intresting pattern but im not sure if the colour or quality is going to last - Itt could be that number three has stretched a bit too much during the summer and needs to consolidate its pattern but then again you are one of the experts when it comes to picking small koi.

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        • #5

          Tosai

          Originally posted by WayneB View Post
          I prefer the following 3 in this order, from left to right.

          All three of these were at the George Show and did absolutely nothing - not even a placing. My top three except I have 3 and 2 swopped. The sanke is possibly the best of the lot in the long term.

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          • #6

            Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
            yes, this is largely true although the body shape is better than the picture indicates in most, some are much more imposing than the ogon - showa is possibly the worst

            In that case, we will get a better result by growing them slowly instead of a rapid growth method.

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            • #7

              Originally posted by Super Kindai View Post
              In that case, we will get a better result by growing them slowly instead of a rapid growth method.
              I have always been led to believe that if I dont push the growth when young then it won't reach the Jumbo sizes

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              • #8

                Well not all good quality koi get a place at every show.

                In August my Dainichi Kohaku took first and tategoi in the cape but in March at george it did not even get a place but when it comes to future potential my dainichi will leave the others behind. I asked the judges why and they said there was other kohakus with better body, mine looked thin and stretched 24cm so its colours looked faded.

                So maybe yours where not the best on the day but has better future potential. I also believe in growing tosai quickly in normal conditions, no heated ponds or pure oxygen, Just normal pond conditions with lots of food.

                I also believe in growing tosai quickly. I have to many examples of tosai which did not grow fast in its first two years and now at 3 or 4 years i am still struggeling to get them past 50cm. I belive in lots of Hi-protein food in normal pond conditions with lots of aeration. I tested my oxygen content at 25'C and it was sitting at 7.5mg/l which is not bad as far as understand as saturation at 25'C is 8mg/l

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                • #9

                  Originally posted by WayneB View Post
                  Well not all good quality koi get a place at every show.

                  In August my Dainichi Kohaku took first and tategoi in the cape but in March at george it did not even get a place but when it comes to future potential my dainichi will leave the others behind. I asked the judges why and they said there was other kohakus with better body, mine looked thin and stretched 24cm so its colours looked faded.

                  So maybe yours where not the best on the day but has better future potential.
                  Is that it in your "header"? impressive fish - but I have heard that Dainichi bulk late so you have plenty of time. Do you think I should be pushing the growth rate now - or will I sacrifice quality in the long run?

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                  • #10

                    Yes thats my kohaku. I have been buying better quality koi in the last year or so and she is my favourite at the momment. Here is a link about her.

                    Quinton, the time for growing the tosai has passed us, we are moving into winter and as far as i understand its better to let them be. I have cut my amount of food with 2/3 so far and only feed 200-300g a day.

                    I have been able to grow tosai in the last 2 years quickly so im now more confident. I start my growth season in October with Bloodworms which i buy from cape koi. (very expensive) I feed them bloodworms every morning and pellets the rest of the day until the end of october. Then i swap over to hi-protein eel pellets mixed with my normal feed. I aslo feed 1.5% of the body weight...you need to calculate this. I also add montmorilite clay once every week. Every 2nd week they get cooked brown rise - this helps with building body. I also treat all the pellets with additives which i already mentioned to you. You can find some of that info here.

                    As i already mentioned in the previous post, i believe in lots of aeration. I have air pumps running on timers to assist with aeration and with the flow of the water...but at night time i do not run any air pumps. Only my waterfall and venturi as i do not believe in disturbing them...i have had many people disagree with me regarding this but hey that what i believe.

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                    • #11

                      Originally posted by WayneB View Post
                      Yes thats my kohaku. I have been buying better quality koi in the last year or so. Here is a link about her.

                      Quinton, the time for growing the tosai have passed us, we are moving into winter and as far as i understand its better to let them be. I have cut my amount of food with 2/3 so far and only feed 200-300g a day.

                      I have been able to grow tosai in the last 2 years quickly so im now more confident. I start my growth seeason in October with Bloodworms. I feed them bloodworms every morning and pellets the rest of the day until the end of october. Then i swapp over to hi-protein eel pellets mixed with my normal feed. I aslo feed 1.5% of the body weight of my koi...you need to calculate this.
                      Thanks Wayne - yes will be cutting back - maybe to winter formula/wheatgerm - what do you feed in winter? I mostly use Aquamaster - but am quite interested in alternatives BTW What are eel pellets?

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Quinton, at the momment i havnt switched over to a winter food yet and are only feeding less growth. But during winter i usually feed 50% growth and 50% wheatgerm.

                        Not sure if you know but the supplier of AquaMaster "Santon Aquatics" does not have any Aqua Master growth any more and wont get until end of the year so i fore see some problem in the future with supply if i listen to the grape vine...

                        My alternative to Aqua Master is Ichiban Pro but i have to courrier that down from Gauteng.

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                        • #13

                          Eel Pellets are pellets for eels and seeing that they are carnivours its is very Hi-Protein food. Eel pellets are also cheap i paid R170 for 10kg. I feed that to my fry and tosai to grow them quickly but i do understand that its not something you want to feed you bigger kois al the time as they need more than just protein, so what i do is for thhe bigger kois i mix it in with the normal food so that the eel pellets make up a 1/4 of the mixture.

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                          • #14

                            Eel pellets

                            Originally posted by WayneB View Post
                            Eel Pellets are pellets for eels and seeing that they are carnivours its is very Hi-Protein food. Eel pellets are also cheap i paid R170 for 10kg. I feed that to my fry and tosai to grow them quickly but i do understand that its not something you want to feed you bigger kois al the time as they need more than just protein, so what i do is for thhe bigger kois i mix it in with the normal food so that the eel pellets make up a 1/4 of the mixture.
                            Do you get these from Aqua Nutro? Is this the right protein for koi, what % protein?

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                            • #15

                              I bought it via Christie. I read about it on the malysian forum and christie said it will work for tosai but he will not advise feeding only it to bigger kois. You can also try the pellets for Telapia aswell. What % protein and weather it is the correct type of protein...i dont know. What i can tell you is that i spawned kohaku on the 1st december 2008 and at the george show the babies measured 18cm. Thats from egg to 18cm in 4 months...i think thats impressive.

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