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  • Thoughts on this kohaku

    Kohaku...18 inch, 2 step male. The quality of the beni is absolutely wonderful from front to rear, very even...pictures really don't show the depth. Just wondering what your thoughts are on the overall koi. Breeder is Mano
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  • #2

    I like her. Nice shape. Overall pattern is attractive. Would prefer the Hi not cover the one gill so much. I think she needs time to see if she becomes "exciting". In picture #2 I'm seeing some small gray shadows. Could just be the photography angle. If it is accurate, then I'd be concerned that there is Sumi hiding below.

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    • #3

      No...just the angle. Wish you could see this one in person. One of those koi that really doesn't excite off the bat pattern wise, but after you look at it and the quality of the beni it has....can't take your eye off it. The white ground is also good.....it's just the beni is super. In my opinion would be a real contender for young champion up to 20 inch. Very seldom do I see what I'm seeing at this size at shows. Saw one that was comparable quality wise, but was 23 or 24 inches.

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      • #4

        don't know what it is Dan but the koi reminds of you Grand champ from Puget Sound a few years back....
        Dick Benbow

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        • #5

          From the pictures I have to agree, a definite contender for Young Champion title at any koi show. Maybe even a bigger prize at a young koi show. Male koi seem to do better in these smaller sizes in our local shows.

          Is this a recent addition to your collection or have you had it for a while?

          Comment

          • #6

            Erwinsan....Still considering it. If it were female I would have already gotten it. Just not sure I want a male.

            Dick...similar although my other was an Inazuma pattern. Similar hi on cheek plate. This one hands down is much higher quality.

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            • #7

              Dan,

              Just my 2 cents. overall nice koi.

              I agree with Mike about the hi covering the gill,
              I am being picky - there is hi on the dorsal fin as well and there is a small hi to ward the end of tail on the first photo.

              John

              Comment

              • #8

                Male vs Female beni

                Dan,
                I have to say that I haven't seen a picture of a koi that showed the depth and quality of beni like this kohaku does. I'm sure the pics still does not provide the full impact of the quality of beni. NICE! Thank you, my eyes have had a treat today.

                All,

                Would like some insight on any differences between beni development of male and female koi. From everyones experience rearing koi, does anyone have any experience that female koi develop beni better than male koi? Is it 50/50 or would beni development be more inclined to be better with female subjects. I'm sure it will vary from koi to koi, but interested in hobbiest experience on whether male koi can develop as well as female koi. Much like earlier posts of Momotaro's male koi's winning over female koi in Japan Shows, then all they would need to work on is SIZE! Hahaha.

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                • #9

                  Body lines remind me of my Kohaku RP. I like it very much!! The fine balance of beni to shiro is nice. Dan can you explain alittle more about the Mano bloodline kohaks...

                  Also beni on the gill plate is cool with me, I am sure if it were too prefect the price would be way different than what you paid for it.
                  The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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                  • #10

                    Believe he raises Tomezo bloodline kohaku's. They are noted for their snow white ground and deep beautiful laquer beni. I can believe it after seeing this one.

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                    • #11

                      Akai-san: I do not know if a general rule really serves a purpose, unless you go behind it. Dan says this Kohaku is male, so I'm sure it is. I nonetheless referred to it as a "her" because that is the impression these photos give me.

                      Males are said to finish early and go down hill quickly, with none of their colors being as good as on females ... the Shiro more yellow, the Hi thinner and prone to breaking up after age 5. Maybe these types of generalities had more than a little truth in them decades ago. I think it may now be better to say that within a particular bloodline the females are generally superior to the males in body volume, length, coloration and likelihood of providing enjoyment over more years. If you look at male Kohaku bred at Torazo, the thick Beni is superior to what you will see on females at many (and maybe most?) breeders. The Torazo males lack in body volume, but not in their Beni, and seem not to grow much past a puny 28". Hasegawa males are typically fairly scrawny, but the reds are bright against very white base color. I have the impression they retain their good looks a long time. Momotaro is setting a different standard with the focus on jumbo tosai. It takes a lot of genetic potential for a koi to be grown to 14"+ in their first year and have the colors look like anything; but Momotaro is spawning so many sets and culling such a high percentage that it is hard to imagine where it will lead; and, as pointed out in another thread, is producing some males of substantial size and volume. with excellent Beni.

                      So, yes, females are "better", but not all are better than all males, and I'm not so sure we do beginning koikeepers a favor by focusing on the sexes. Focusing on the pigment is what is important, although a very difficult thing to study and understand. Maybe in another 10 years I'll begin to recognize what I see when staring at Hi.

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                      • #12

                        Mike....agree with ya 100%. This koi is a good example of what you eluded to. In my opinion it is better than most females I see up to 20-22 inch....even many larger ones as far as the quality of the hi is concerned.

                        I see alot of koi coming through my friend's business where I help out, and seldom kohaku's of this quality.

                        jjkon...many times a technically correct koi is not the best koi, if you get my drift. In the west so many look at the imperfections first, as though from a book standard. However in Japan, they look at the koi overall and see a much different picture. Took me a while to get by that habit, but when I did, it was amazing to find excellent koi that were passed over. Dick alluded to another kohaku of mine that took Grand Champion at a local young koi show...up to 18 inches. For months everyone praised the look of this kohaku but passed because of some hi on one pectoral. I decided since customers were not interested, that I would purchase it. There was nothing at the show that even came close to this koi. The small imperfection meant nothing in the overall package.

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                        • #13

                          Dan, I like this Kohak very nice quality good body for male and could only get better. The beni is thick from what I can tell in Pic. Overall impression is this would catch my eye in a pond and with time I am sure you can condition it to get only better.

                          Dan, only one way to tell if its for you. Buy it and study it...


                          Joe
                          It's a living creature (chit happens)

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                          • #14

                            Joe.....Have a video which would give everyone a better look at this kohaku. Any way to get it on here or somewhere else? Tried to uplaod and would not take it.

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                            • #15

                              File is probably too big, might want to shot something smaller.
                              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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