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  • Triploid Koi

    I believe that a mad scientist is making triploid koi. Are the eggs about to hatch SMG?

    -steve hopkins
  • #2

    hey bekko is that like the cross where they took coho salmon with walleye and musky and came up with a Cowalski?
    Dick Benbow

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    • #3

      Good one Dick.

      But no, that's where you shock the eggs with heat, cold, pressure or chemicals (or a combination) to make them have three sets of chormosomes instead of two. This will make the fish sterile so females will not waste energy on reproduction and, hopefully, grow faster and larger.

      Creating triploids is done routinely with grass carp to create sterile fish for stocking small private ponds and lakes. The sterile grass carp will control unwanted vegetation, but cannot become reproducing populations in local reservoirs or rivers where their feeding habits could disrupt the ecosystem. For example, in Washington...
      http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/pl...t/aqua024.html

      -steve hopkins

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      • #4

        triploids at least in trout make for fast growers and are eagerly sought by anglers here in the Northwest.

        I always appreciate your technical expertise!

        thanks for being active on our board!
        Dick Benbow

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        • #5

          If one placed fertilized koi eggs into a pressure cooker, put an air hose on it and raised the pressure in there, reasonably, and leave the whole thing out in the sun for gentle heating what do you think would happen.
          Problem is, my experimental koi hens are keeping their legs...er...fins together.

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          • #6

            Shucks SMG, I hoped you had it all figured out and were going to tell us how it worked! After seeing your cryptic post on NI, I read that for grass carp they run the pressure up to 8,000 psi of hydrostatic pressure for 90 seconds. That's a lot of pressure.

            I've never done triploids hands-on but briefly watched some guys make triploid striped bass many years ago. They had a canister-like thing which they mashed in a hydraulic press to create the required pressure. Wish now I had paid closer attention.

            Aquatic Ecosystems sells the cannister, but it's not cheap:
            http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/3431/cid/1012

            I am wondering if it would be possible to rig an old hydraulic cylinder off of a tractor or something to use as a canister (after washing out the oil, of course) and use a wheel bearing press or just a hydraulic car jack to compress the piston and generate the pressure.

            -steve hopkins

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            • #7

              So the stuff is availible and as soon as the fish are ready all you have to do is pick out those GC eggs and put them in the vat!

              B.Scott
              Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

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              • #8

                gday again steve, wouldnt you be able to get enough pressure from an o2 gas bottle..hook it all up with a pressure reader until it got up to the desired pressure in the water/egg container?

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                • #9

                  As I've watched the history of koi champions ,so much is placed on being able to buy babies from them the following spring. If all the girls are "It's", It would dramatically change the face of the way things are done.

                  instead of saying i bought a baby of so and so's....



                  I had my egg "tripped" in the same pressure cooker as the champs from show 59 and 60!

                  I don't know but it kind of looses something for me. I like things done the old fashioned way, boy meets girl etc.......(LOL)
                  Dick Benbow

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                  • #10

                    but why not a clone of that big winner? I know in plants they use colchine to treat for triploids being produced and if it does for the fish what id does for the plants hello JUMBO !
                    " I'd rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy "

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                    • #11

                      Where you been ranskye? The oxygen bottle is a good idea. You could probably use a small spare oxygen bottle as the cylinder to hold the eggs as well. Much cheaper than the purpose-made stuff.

                      Clochine creates a lot of weird mutations in plants. I do not know what the equivalent compound would be in fish. The results may not be pretty though.

                      It is also possible to treat eggs with estrogen to produce all-female offspring.

                      -stevehopkins

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                      • #12

                        i think that solution thrown onto plants produces offspriing of every imaginable type. everything the plant has ever been and could be.. what would be considered mutants galore..cause through a normal natural cross there is more uniformity.
                        ive heard also that doing that, polyploids and stuff will kill most of the offspring seed, but leave just enough to cross again and then give everything imaginable under the sun.
                        my guess is that the chemical would kill the fish and not work the same way on fish as it does a plant..but ive never heard it tried.. if it did youd get some very unusual results..
                        we tend to play around with nature a lot dont we. too much.
                        i remeber back in ag school and kids saying how we shouldnt be playing with mother nature..
                        even the very idea of selective breeding is playing around.

                        ive got a dog that been cut and its a bit sad to know that he can no longer produce any offspring..poor boy. grandaddy rabbits would be happy though..

                        arent the big koi places using cryo machines yet?

                        id imagine that will be done someday.. thaw them out. some of the champion eggs of yesteryear and cross them with milt from back then or new champ fish milt.
                        you could thaw out a ten thousand eggs for each type of milt that you had and get a great idea of what the cross gives without taking years of natural crossings..
                        its almost scary what we can and do do these days.
                        hmm i can just imagine the light globes going off all over the place.

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                        • #13

                          hi steve, yeah i been on hiatus.
                          think i caught some kinda internet disease..forgot my other life.. became a shadow of my former self and all that..this internet knowledge thing is addictive hey.

                          actually i aint been anywhere, just workin the farm and doing other stuff of a night time instead of spendin hours on the net.
                          thought id drop back in and see whats going on in koibito land.
                          breeding season is about 6 weeks away.
                          been busy getting things ready.. harvesting out all the old stuff.
                          trying to cathc some wild bass.. elusive buggers.. gonna use a net soon.

                          id never heard th estogen thing..

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            hey steve have you ever heard of fantail goldfish producing more or less fantails through changes in temperature or ph.?
                            my boss reckons she did a crop once and they came out majority single tails, i think it was an early season crop, maybe was colder water.
                            but i expect it was more because the fantails used where from unpure fantail parents.
                            they were showing a fantail but actually holding single tailed genetic from the parent fish.

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Yes, they say that environmental conditions can make a drastic change in the ratio of goldfish characteristics. Read that on the Goldfish Breeders Forum. I would tell you more about that forum, but do not want to lead your addictive personality away from real life experiences :>)

                              -stevehopk

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