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Tosai in spring... indicators of nisai in fall??

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  • Tosai in spring... indicators of nisai in fall??

    It’s springtime again and our local dealers are bringing in a lot of tosai. The question is this; is the quality of the spring tosai an indicator of the quality of nisai we would see in the fall? I know it is common practice to hold-back some high-quality pieces to sell at larger sizes. I raise this question because so far this year, I’m impressed with the tosai I’ve seen and I’m getting excited for fall. Maybe I jumping too far ahead, maybe not. What are your thoughts?
  • #2

    if your dealer is bringing in koi from elsewhere other than Niigata, I'd say you may be on to something.

    the koi i pay attention to tend to come from that region. not because they are any better just i've spent the most time there and know the breeders.

    the earthquake and it's devastation has adversly affected some breeders availability, some breeders growth of their tosai, and some breeders are without grow ponds to put them out into so they may be selling them? No one place is the same.
    Dick Benbow

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    • #3

      From out shipments so far, it is obvious that quality and size of tosai from Niigata will be mixed this year.

      What I can say from first hand experience is that they are generally smaller (because many breeders shared available greenhaouse ponds to overwinter them, often in evercrowded conditions).

      Where so yearlings are of a little lower quality, most are not, just a little smaller. Given good growing conditions (especially a grow-out pond), this should not matter, as they will catch up with the growing season (given the right genes are there).
      Arthur

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      • #4

        Kinda wondering what to expect for fall too...I have to agree with e-san thou alot of nice tosai coming in this spring...But like the saying goes "So many fish, so little money!" Damn it hurts!!! I guess it's back to window shopping.
        The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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        • #5

          Dick: What a great avatar! ... but she has a Joisey accent?

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          • #6

            Do you guys see any difference in price this year?

            -steve

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            • #7

              Although I have seen higher prices on the Internet and from some dealers, IMHO there is no justification for this.

              As I said above, availability from Niigata is restricted. Some specific requests may not be fulfilled. In general, the quality is slightly below that of previous years and koi are somewhat smaller in AVERAGE. The Japanese breeders are VERY honest about the situation and are pricing accordingly. Thus, in AVERAGE, the price of koi (tosai, nisai) should be slightly lower.

              Please do not read this for more than what is said. There are many tosai and nisai of excellent quality.
              Arthur

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              • #8

                Mike, she was born in jersey so she does talk with an accent. Kimiko was born in japan and her english is getting better. will be fun next winter to listen to the girls communicate when they winter in the moderate temps of the NW. Right now Yoshiko's little sister is keeping kimiko company.
                Arthur, this fall has agreed to look for a samarai warrior (dressed in blue) that could possibly be a suitor for one of their hands ( I mean pecs).....
                we'll see. As with all things revolving around love, I don't think there will be a lanquage barrier!
                Dick Benbow

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                • #9

                  I see no difference in prices...

                  Originally posted by bekko
                  Do you guys see any difference in price this year?

                  -steve
                  The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    prices...

                    Now that things have "settled" from the devastating earthquake, it's interesting to see if the dealers positions will be: 1) sell more koi to generate funds and rebuild or 2) retain more stock to replace losses. I'm sure these positions will influence pricing; but how much? This I don't have an answer to. I'm sure it will be different for everyone.

                    Majority of the tosai I've seen in our area has been from Southern Japan. But I do know some dealers that are getting tosai from Niigata.

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                    • #11

                      A few months ago I spent the day with breeder from Niigata. The question of pricing was brought up as if they would be inflated or not. He had said that the prices will remain the same and said for the reason of long term business goals not short term. In other words the breeders look to make money long term not short term as many of us are accustomed to.

                      Also remember that as the yen becomes stronger the prices of koi also rise so you always have to keep this in mind.

                      Joe
                      It's a living creature (chit happens)

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by keokoi
                        A few months ago I spent the day with breeder from Niigata. The question of pricing was brought up as if they would be inflated or not. He had said that the prices will remain the same and said for the reason of long term business goals not short term. In other words the breeders look to make money long term not short term as many of us are accustomed to.

                        Also remember that as the yen becomes stronger the prices of koi also rise so you always have to keep this in mind.

                        Joe
                        thanks for the insight

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          As the breeder culls, is his thought to be more forgiving to what is being held back. I know that they have to hit the so called quota in what is to be sold and what is to be held back..But are alot of junk goin to be thrown in the river or sold off...American dealers bread and butter is and will always be tosai....
                          The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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