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why are showas soohard to find?

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  • why are showas soohard to find?

    ive looked for weeks on internet for a decent showa for a reasonable price. i want something about 10-14 inches and have not been able to find it. anyone have one they would like to sell or maybe know of a website that i could possibly order one off of? money is a little limited and i would like price range to be around 100-130. having that budget is why i havent been able to find "the koi". please help me. PLEASE
  • #2

    Mr. Fong,
    Sadly the fact of life is "ya gets what ya pays for". You aren't going to find a quality showa for 130 Dollars, Euros or Pounds, not unless someone takes pity on you and gives it as a gift.
    You might be able to find a tosai that will develop into a halfway decent fish if you have a good eye, know what to look for, care for it well and are willing to accept the faults it will undoubtedly have.
    Personally I find tosai showa VERY challenging but very entertaining to pick the better fish for the future. They take much longer to develop but the transition is all the more spectacular.
    Good luck

    B.Scott
    Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

    Comment

    • #3

      Why are "Good" Showa's hard to find?
      1. What stage to you want the Showa to be in? Tategoi or finished?

      2. What is your budget? Price will greatly change your picks of what you want.

      3. Bloodline? Choosing something from a speacality breeder will cost too.
      There are good Showa's from ISA, Dianichi....Well everyone uses Dianichi lines, but it's the breeders as artist to produce what they like.
      The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

      Comment

      • #4

        He does mention a price range of 100-130 though he doesn't say what currency he is refering to. I don't feel there is much in the way of choice for that amount unless he means ounces of silver/gold.
        B.Scott
        Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

        Comment

        • #5

          B. Scott, I am with you, 130 won't do it in any currency. But then it is hard to know what is a "good" showa to our friend Mitza... This story reminds me a bit of a story Peter W used to tell.. about people who would come in with pictures of All Japan Winners and "perfect" koi and ask for those, like they were easy to find. And cheap. I do not mean this as disrespect in any way Mitzahphong.


          So what is a good showa to you? Tell us about your pond, ie location, size, how long you have kept koi etc, etc...I know that pretty good Tosai Showa are available , often with a length of 12-13", from top Japanese breeders. But the price often starts at 200$ US and up to easily over $500 , and sometimes way more.

          Here are some decent ones, IMHO. Is this the level of koi you mean? or do you mean more finished. These are all between 11 and 13" at the time of this picture, close to the size you said you were looking for. These are our "play" tosai, which we do every other year or so. Grow them up for a couple years and see what happens and what we can do with them. Of course they aren't all finished, or all Showa. 4 of these are showa, believe it or not. Hard to see in this picture though Showa are usually what Shila and I look for. They are alot of fun, but also require alot of patience and skill. They can be very frustrating too, the "perpetual" tategoi.
          Best regards,

          Bob Winkler

          My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.

          sigpic

          Comment

          • #6

            well im just asking for something decent. i dont want a messy ugly koi of course but its not going to be a grand champion or anything. im not really looking for any bloodline. i just want a showa in my pond.my pond is about 2500 gallons and i have a few kohakus a few sankes, a shusui and a few other miscelaneous ranging from 7 inches to 15 inches. i am talking about us currency by the way. i just want something that will change as it grows. in the picture poasted by bob winkler is exactly what im looking for. something like that will change the look of my pond. but im limited on money of course and those look extremely expensive. i was just curious about if anyone knew anywhere online that will sell me the koi that i want.

            Comment

            • #7

              By coincidence, I just received this email from Toyoma Koi in LA saying they are having a sale this saturday and Sunday of "baby" koi,


              "saturday-sunday from 10am to 5pm at toyomakoi 17721 anglin lane tustin
              92780, over 7000 baby in stock, 40$ to 80$ for baby, 100$ to 200$ for jumbo.."

              Who knows what they have, but might fit your budget and type.... Also Japan Koi online is a place some people bid on koi and feel like they get a good deal. I have not bought from either of these sources, but you might start there. Good Luck.. and quarantine, quarantine, quarantine.
              Best regards,

              Bob Winkler

              My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.

              sigpic

              Comment

              • #8

                I remember when I wanted a good Ake mae kigoi. had to wait two years to get one.

                When I was looking for a good showa myself around 1999/2000 I was having a difficult time finding one.

                Price and personal tastes aside, a good anything when you want it is a joy to find!
                Dick Benbow

                Comment

                • #9

                  100$ to 200$ for jumbo
                  We have greatly differing views as to what is a "Jumbo" I fear

                  I can sympathise with you Dick. All the fish I like are out of my price range. All the fish I can afford I wouldn't feed to the cats. I guess that says something about my taste in fish of the size of my pocket book (or both!)

                  B.Scott
                  Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by Bob Winkler
                    By coincidence, I just received this email from Toyoma Koi in LA saying they are having a sale this saturday and Sunday of "baby" koi,


                    "saturday-sunday from 10am to 5pm at toyomakoi 17721 anglin lane tustin
                    92780, over 7000 baby in stock, 40$ to 80$ for baby, 100$ to 200$ for jumbo.."

                    Who knows what they have, but might fit your budget and type.... Also Japan Koi online is a place some people bid on koi and feel like they get a good deal. I have not bought from either of these sources, but you might start there. Good Luck.. and quarantine, quarantine, quarantine.
                    $100-$200 for jumbo would be a real steal or black market price to just unload something...probably they mean jumbo tosai, but with that you can't even get a jumbo tosai for less than $500 at some dealers.
                    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Jumbo Tosai is the slant of the email. They are talking about all "baby" koi for sale. I agree $200 for a "true" jumbo tosai would be a steal, especially for one of any quality. And of course, I have no idea how well these koi could fulfill a discriminating koi keepers' "eye". I was just trying to give M a couple directions to look for their dream at the price range ($100-130) they were looking for..


                      I remember very well the first time I spent $150 for a koi. I thought it was nuts, my wife KNEW I was nuts, much less the rumored (at the time I didn't believe it) $1500 and more some people were spending on a ... fish!! Insanity.. But when the nice, "expensive", male kohaku was in my pond one minute, I got "it". I could no longer see the other koi in the pond, they were outshone by this "jewel". I see M as possibly being on this same journey. God help them
                      Best regards,

                      Bob Winkler

                      My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by Bob Winkler
                        Jumbo Tosai is the slant of the email. They are talking about all "baby" koi for sale. I agree $200 for a "true" jumbo tosai would be a steal, especially for one of any quality. And of course, I have no idea how well these koi could fulfill a discriminating koi keepers' "eye". I was just trying to give M a couple directions to look for their dream at the price range ($100-130) they were looking for..


                        I remember very well the first time I spent $150 for a koi. I thought it was nuts, my wife KNEW I was nuts, much less the rumored (at the time I didn't believe it) $1500 and more some people were spending on a ... fish!! Insanity.. But when the nice, "expensive", male kohaku was in my pond one minute, I got "it". I could no longer see the other koi in the pond, they were outshone by this "jewel". I see M as possibly being on this same journey. God help them
                        Bob, I remember spending $200 on an Ogon when I first started and my family thought I was crazy...but $200 on an Ogon come on..now that I think about it I was crazy!!! HAHAHAH but whocares, that's the trials we all live by in this hobby....

                        But to get back to the subject at hand, the hobbyist has to have some realistic price range on what they want to spend. You can ask a dealer why a Showa is this price or what makes this showa more expensive than the other.

                        In regards why "Good Showa are hard to find" is because the hobbyist has come into selecting Showa with too much expectations...nothings perfect...
                        The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          I still get that look when people find I have spent $600 on a fish. But I have a buddy at work who swears I'm insane but turns around and smokes two packs a day. A the present cost of a pack of sigs here in Europe that comes to $4300 a year. So who is insane?

                          B.Scott
                          Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            My first couple of fish were $35 tosai. well I grew out of that pretty Quick...went from there to a $225 Goshiki 2 weeks laer bought a $250 gin Rin Showa from Marusada... Well now I am a nut! if you add up the expenses from Airfare, hotel and train ride. Yikes!

                            I think the important thing here it to kow where yoru limit is and play within your limits. Be happy with what you get in your limits. We all want that ALL JAPAN show koi but really its not in the cards. I am happy with what I got. Joe
                            It's a living creature (chit happens)

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Agreed $200 is not realistic retail, but here are some that are/were$200 in Japan last year. Not trying to give false hope, as these are not available at that price here. Here they would have been more obviously. And should be. But the more times he/she goes to events like the sale at Toyoma, and looks online, maybe they will "level up" if possible, or be happy with what they can get for their $130 .
                              Best regards,

                              Bob Winkler

                              My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.

                              sigpic

                              Comment

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