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  • Fry "appreciation", pics

    Hello,
    I'm attaching some pics of fry born between the 7th and the 9h of april 2005.
    The parents were 1 Kohaku female x 1 Kohaku male and 3 different Sanke females x (2 Sanke+1 Kohaku) males.
    There are many fry showing a rather uniform light orange colour that might turn out to be Kohaku, as expected.
    Besides there are other phenotypes present. This year the proportion of black fry with yellow head remains quite low compared with the previous year. In my limited experience these black fry develop quite dark, some of them like Hi Utsuri. Last year I got just a few Showa but not worthwhile to keep.
    You will see other fry that are quite puzzling. These fry often got rather skinny.
    Culling Sanke is not easy at all!
    Diego
    Attached Files
    Diego Jordano
    Cordoba, Spain
    A.E.K. web site http://www.elkoi.com
    pers. web site http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/
  • #2

    Great pictures Diego.

    So 5-weeks old, is the size what you'd expect?

    Wish you the best with your culling.
    Regards, Bob
    ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º>
    <º}}}}>< <º}}}}><

    Comment

    • #3

      Diego,

      You are looking for showa? But you didn't spawn for this. I would expect more kohaku and a few sanke. Per the chart in Completely ... Koi by Axelrod. You would expect shiro-muji, aka-muji, and kohaku.

      I will have to post some of my kohaku to sanke cross and my goshiki to kohaku cross fry. The goshiki look very similar to your posted fry. The kohaku to sanke just hatched on 5/13/05.

      Jeff

      Comment

      • #4

        Excellent fry pictures. Here is what my fry are looking like. Flock Spawn where the only female was a Showa. Males were Sanke, Kohaku, Shiro Utsuri, and Yamabuki.

        There are roughtly 1,000 fry in this photo (about 16 days old), 200 of the fry are dark (20%)
        Attached Files

        Comment

        • #5

          Hi all

          Bob,
          I'm not sure about size. I mean, there is a lot of variation in size, I would say much more among siblings whithin any given spawn than among spawns.
          I guess this is an indication of too scarce living food supply and severe competition for live food among the fry. The initial density of fry in the pools (just 1500 liters each) was way too high to be sustainable more than one month, anyway.
          If I had solved the Artemia decapsulation issue and had used Artemia after the first week, the fry would be possibly bigger, but I relied on copepods (there were few Daphnias belonging to two different species) and now I believe that adult copepods are too big and have too many spikes for small fry.
          Right now they are eating a mixture of three different dry food, three to four times per day, and are growing day by day.
          Last year I had newly hatched fry by this date, so anyway this year the fry have a plus of almost one month and a half. I guess I can't complaint, but learned this lesson for next year.

          Jeff,
          I'm not looking for Showa. Not a single parent of these spawns was a Showa, so expectations of getting any decent Showa out o these spawns are negligible. Did not culled black fry so far because I'm still not confident, I'm too busy, and there are not many blacks. How do you think these black/dark fry will develop? Should I cull them all?

          Greg,
          your fry look great and very uniform in size. How often do you feed them? Are you using Artemia?

          all the best,
          Diego
          Diego Jordano
          Cordoba, Spain
          A.E.K. web site http://www.elkoi.com
          pers. web site http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/

          Comment

          • #6

            More pics

            These pics were taken on 22th of May, thererfore the age of the fry was around one month and a half.
            There is a big variation in size among the fry. The biggests are around 4 cm in length.
            Here you have some more pictures, were you can see how some colour and pattern is already showing up in some of the fry.
            Diego
            Attached Files
            Diego Jordano
            Cordoba, Spain
            A.E.K. web site http://www.elkoi.com
            pers. web site http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/

            Comment

            • #7

              More food! ... I want too see them at 4".

              Thanks for posting their progress.

              Comment

              • #8

                they do look like they should at this age...
                patterns? these are the pretend patterns.

                Comment

                • #9

                  I cant wait till mine start showing some color like that. I am feeding them 3 tablespoons (3/4 million) of Artimea every 12 hours. So about 1 1/2 million Artimea a day. Also about 4 tablespoons of powdered flakes twice a day. Not sure if they are eating much of that or not.

                  I have micro pellets on order, should be here today. I also tried just today, grinding up some pellets to powder and feeding that. Braun Hand blender with chopper attachment works great for grinding flakes and/or pellets.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    What I would like to see you guys do is show us a log of the koi from start to maybe six months. From hatch with pics at say two weeks and then four and so on. That is what I plan to do so I can keep up with what parent produces, what and how good they are. It would be nice to see the different types, and them being culled from start to somewhat finished. What a learning thread that would be

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Go see my spawning blog.... With thousands of fry, its a little hard to keep just one around to photograph. Here's one from 2004 spawning I have been keeping pictures of pretty early on. It hatched out in one of my waterfall pools, and so it was easy to find and photograph.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Greg how long do you think I will need to hold on to my fry before I start to cull? I have so much to learn, my first spawn will be Kohaku and if I start culling and I dont know what I am doing then I may throw out good koi. I can see from the photo the difference in that koi, it looks no where near what it did and the black nose is gone, I liked that about that koi and it just went away.
                        Im thinking of doing only one spawn this year and holding on to the lot and taking pics and logging the changes in the koi, but since all koi are different Im not sure what to do. Its going to be very hard for me, I can see that now. Would I be able after the second spawn to start culling sooner or are all spawn going to be different.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          If you are spawning for Kohaku only you could cull out the black ones after only a couple weeks. This will be my first year culling, so I can't offer you much in the way of advice.

                          As for the koi in the picture, the sumi on the back that dissappeared will most likely be comming back up when it hits 3 years old. This koi should turn out to be an Aka Sanke.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Kgirlie,
                            I take it you are raising koi for the US mass market as well as the discerning Koi Hobbyist.
                            So do not listen to the esteemed veteran of 6 years. if you have the pond space, and from what you've posted you will have more than enough for the Autumn spawn. Cull out the disfigured ones.
                            How ever you could start learning your breeding potential and your eye and the different development that occurs by having some 15 x 20 ponds. In each pond place 20 koi that look the same that are representative of a trait you ahve identified in your fry. last year I took 20 slate blue Pickal Goi and this year they are long fin Ochiba shigure(sp). None of the brown was showing last year. I was hoping I'd get some soft blue soragois.
                            A really good thing would be to take a bucket full of GC Fry...ones that look like they could win with their baby clothes on and stick them in apond...next year you'll know what they do. And try your eye at tategoing...pick 30 of the ones you think will kick butt next year...who knows maybe you will be right.
                            but hen you turn 20,000 fry back loose in the pond it is tough to recognize the "question" koi in the Spring.

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Kgirlie,
                              Pickal's Blog is very good. Please do yourself a favor and read it...Maurice has an excellent site for you as well.

                              Comment

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