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This is Kohaku, Loran

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  • This is Kohaku, Loran

    I was looking at aquitori's Judging Kohaku thread http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2258 and the body shape of Koi B reminded me of two famous koi - This is Kohaku and Loran. In a past issue of Koi-Bito, with the young breeders part 1, many of them pointed to Loran as the most memorable koi they had ever seen or the one that left the largest impression on them.

    I know that Loran was the only two time winner of the All Japan Shinkokai. What's so special about Loran?
    Is this body shape, with the smaller head, considered more of a classical shape? I don't see many koi with this shape these days. Is this still desirable today?

    I'm just starting to learn about koi, it's history, and appreciation so forgive these naive questions.

    Thanks,
    Dan

  • #2

    another Ogawa favorite!

    Dan, if you look at Loran you can see she has wide shoulders. So her confirmation is a little off. Her over all quality especially her shiroji is a stunner.

    I have not seen Loran in Person but those who have please post.

    Joe
    It's a living creature (chit happens)

    Comment

    • #3

      most judging programs hold that 60% of the grade comes from body shape, or confirmation if you will. i think the smaller head emphasised the big shoulders
      and left a deep impression of balance with her pattern. She did win the "show'
      two times because she also had great skin and thick beni. It was a tribute to her owners that a koi could be kept so well as to be able to repeat.

      what is hard in the beginning during your learning curve is to imagine the "presence" a koi has in the judging pond. You can get no sense of it from a photograph.

      I hope someday you'll be able to see the show in person. It will go along way in helping you to understand.
      Dick Benbow

      Comment

      • #4

        It would be nice to see a proper picture of them so we can tell what they are really like instead if this doctored photoshop rubbish that they churn out. What is the point of that? what are they trying to achieve? may as well just draw a fish from scratch using software if your going to do that.

        Comment

        • #5

          This Ogawa bred fish is named Loulan after a chinese city, not after Lauren Bacall as has been suggested. This information direct from Nakayama san, Chuchan, who is a Director and general manager at Ogawa.

          I don't think that particular photo of her does her shape justice.
          Andrew

          "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

          Comment

          • #6

            Loran, The Butterfly of the Night. To me this is the greatest koi who ever lived.

            Is this true or did I dream it? ( This is a koi that haunts my dreams, up from the depths she materializes, luminous white and fire and those languid eyes. ) I think I read someplace in an article interviewing Mr. Kodama that he fit this fish for show. And he traveled a long way on a winter night to see her for the first time at her owner's pond. She came drifting up in the dark, and her shiroji was white as the moonlit snow. And so he named her Butterfly of the Night and took her to fatten and bloom. She won the All Japan, skipped a year, and he brought her back and she won the All Japan again.

            My best kohaku Kimitsu Konino was bred by Mr. Kodama during his koi breeding venture. I don't know what he had been feeding her in Japan but when she got to Texas she would eat nothing but tofu. Kiko has an Ogawa sire, so perhaps she is related to Butterfly of the Night. I like to think so.

            Comment

            • #7

              To me Loran was the best Kohak of it's time...it's like comparing Dr. J with Micheal Jordan...Can you really put Loran up against Sakura Hime? I am sure we can argue this for months and years to come and ending with no agreement. Sakura Hime has won the ZNA All-Japan twice, were as Loran has not won it. I think for a true Grand champion to be the greatest to ever live they would have to win the triple crown of Japan and that is the All Japan: Shinkokai, Rinyukai and ZNA...But not to take anything way from Loran it was the best at those 2 shows on those days it was entered. Loran and Sakura Hime still lives on as parent bloodline. Loran has been used at Sakai Hiroshima and Sakura Hime has been used at Momotaro. These are my thoughts...I think there are very few of us that have seen Loran in person and those people are considered very lucky to have been given a chance to lay their eyes on greatness...
              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

              Comment

              • #8

                Originally posted by dcny

                I know that Loran was the only two time winner of the All Japan Shinkokai. What's so special about Loran?
                Is this body shape, with the smaller head, considered more of a classical shape? I don't see many koi with this shape these days. Is this still desirable today?


                Thanks,
                Dan

                Are the traits of Loran acceptable today? It's hard to say now a days for show? Not here in America and Japan, well Japan is more forgiving than America. When Loran won those Grand Champion titles she was no bigger that 90BU. But if you look at the whole picture it's the overall quality that made her the Champion she is. But if we were to compare greatness we should also consider Takeshi Hayashi's Dainchi Kohaku that took not only the ZNA GC in 92 but also the 95 Shinkokai GC. That Kohaku won both the ZNA and Shinkokai. I'll find a pic and post it later....
                The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Aquitori,
                  There was no succesful breeding from Loulan, in fact there is a belief that it was during the second attempt to use her as a female parent that she was lost to this world, not sure how accurate that is but she had certainly passed on just a couple of years after being retired from showing and purchased as a potential parent.
                  Andrew

                  "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by Andrew
                    Aquitori,
                    There was no succesful breeding from Loulan, in fact there is a belief that it was during the second attempt to use her as a female parent that she was lost to this world, not sure how accurate that is but she had certainly passed on just a couple of years after being retired from showing and purchased as a potential parent.
                    Andrew, is it true that some of the Grand Champions, like the 101 Sanke failed to be breed before their passing?
                    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      just to fill in about loulan, the chinese city as andrew has mentioned in his posting.

                      For the chinese, there exists an ancient city in the north-werstern china, where people lived in longivity, and in great harmony. Civilization there was beyond imagination, and the minds of every resident of the city were as pure as it could be. Jewelry and gem stones were everywhere, even the roads were paved with ruby. The city was magnificent in every way. At the heart of the city existed a palace, where the mightiest power can be obtained if one manage to reach the very spot where this secret was hidden.
                      The city is only visible to those who has the gift from haven, and are energitically related to the city. the city will only present itself to some of these selected ones at the right moment. one will need the purst mind, and make the right decision at the right time, to have the change to even see the city. However, the path to the city is rigged with all kinds of challenges and danger. None of the selected one have managed to reach the city so far.

                      Legend had it that when the city presents itself, said to have happened a few time, the sky is brithened with the most beautiful, yet pure, color and pattern.


                      stan

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Aquitori,

                        That's exactly what happened with Loulan, don't know about the 101cm sanke, but the information on Loulan, both her name and her passing at or shortly after the second spawning attempt, the first having been unsuccesful, is reliable as it is direct from Chuchan as I mentioned.
                        Andrew

                        "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Loran may noy have been bred, but Ogawa Farm used the Tomoin bloodline which she and many others carry, right? I don't know what bloodline Ogawa uses now. Probably Dianichi.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            @RogerMoo: Your attachments arenĀ“t working. At least not for me.

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Originally posted by RogerMoo
                              Aquitori, is this the kohaku you are talking about?

                              Took the 28th ZNA All Japan Nishikigoi Show Championship in Kobe, 1992. Kohaku at 86cm and is owned by Takeshi Hayashi. It was the 1st All Japan Show for Mr. Takeshi Hayashi, who grabbed an honourable trophy with this wonderful Dainichi Kohaku named 'Monroe'.

                              Another champion koi which I loved most is Sakura-hime.

                              Sakura-hime owned by Mr. Nobuo Takigawa won the 33rd ZNA All Japan Nishikigoi Show in Nagoya, 1997 at 86cm while she is 10 years old and won again the 37th ZNA All Japan Nishikigoi Show in Kobe, 2001 at 92cm at 14 years old. A lapse of 4 years and yet she won again!

                              She was entered for the 29th All Japan Combined Nishikigoi Show, 1997 organised by Zen Nippon Nishikigoi Shinkokai and was beaten in the final vote by winner Koto-Sakura, who was the winner for the 31st ZNA All Japan Nishikigoi Show in Takamatsu, 1995. Sakura-hime settled with the Kokugyo Prize (85Bu). But the result was opposite - as Sakura-hime won in the same year for the 33rd ZNA All Japan Nishikigoi Show, Nagoya 1997!

                              At the 31st All Japan Combined Show in 1999, Sakura-hime was runner-up and the 3rd attempt at the 32nd All Japan Combined Show, 2000 she was again beaten in the final vote by Mr. Tanaka's Sanke.

                              The male parent of this kohaku is a Sansuke blood (named Sakura) and the female parent is a Dainichi koi. It was bought at 3 years old by Momotaro Koi of Okayama and came to Takigawa when it was only 8 years old. This koi incidently was originally bred by Sakai Fish Farm!

                              There are a lot of incredible koi in Japan. Other than Loran, there're Koto-Sakura, Sakura-hime and Monroe who have won 'twice'!

                              And btw, I think Mr. Nobuo Takigawa is the only 'serious' koi hobbyist who have 5 Championship koi, namely: Scarlet Queen 80Bu/8 years old (kohaku bred by Koi no Kansuke) - won 30th ZNA All Japan, Hiroshima 1994, Ushiwaka-maru 83Bu/6 years old (kohaku bred by Sakai Fish Farm) - won 35th ZNA All Japan, Fukuoka 1999, Benkei 91Bu/7 years old (kohaku bred by Sakai Fish Farm)- won 36th ZNA All Japan, Niigata 2000, Yu-Hime 101cm/10 years old (sanke bred by Isawa Nishikigoi Center) - won 34th All Japan Combined Nishikigoi Show, Tokyo 2002 other than the great Sakura-Hime!!!
                              Thanks for your research I am very impressed...Mr. Takigawa is probably one of the most famous hobbyist in the world, even thou those champions have moved on they will be rememebered.
                              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                              Comment

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