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Reading Koi siblings

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  • Reading Koi siblings

    Often we can feel a little lost and overwhelmed when choosing a new Koi. Predicting how a Koi will develop in the future requires a great deal of understanding,... and every bit of insight helps.

    In this pic we see 4 tosai Showas - they are all siblings (from the same Mother, and likely from the same Father) - notice the similarities,... body shape, face shape, shoulder marking, sumi, and red brick tint of Hi - the interesting thing here is the 1st Showa on the left was born here in '01,... and the other 3 were born here in '03 - they are all siblings, but separated by 2 years. Though they are separated by 2 years the genetics are the same, and the older sibling CAN be used to give us an "idea" of how these 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Showas will develop in the future.



    If older siblings are available, look them over to get a better understanding of what you will likely have from your fish in the future. This is a photo of Showa tosai #1 as it looks now - we can expect similar development from the other three younger siblings down the road. Older siblings can take a lot of the guesswork out of a new Koi purchase.


    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood
  • #2

    siblings

    Wel thank you as the point is a valuable one... now to be able to deal with a seller that values his own future as much as he values his customer and offers indeed siblings to the buyer not just fish that happen to look similar. I the world of Koi and sales The land of the rising sun has more time and customers that expect this and get this treatment. here I the us it is harder - not impossible - to get that type of service. so many times the fish I see are through more than one middle man. To ask who a breeder was and expect a truthfull answer is self defeating... I am not saying this is true in all sellers in the area but this is why many people end up with affordable fish with no idea on parentage. I would love to be able to get a fish a year from a seller of reputable practice and keep this fish above all others in my pond. I think I deserve to treat myself to a pair of good fish this spring after all the upgrading to my filtration. Will have to get myself to Southe Jersey this spring and get some. for as of now the fish I have I couldn't honestly tell you a single parent. I feel sad in saying that but it is true. For now they are just nice looking fish but to have more of a story behind them would maike them even nicer. To take it to the next level is my goal, heck I can list breeders names and stock plant sources for over a hundred of my orchids and list awards and such for my plants but not yet there for my fish.... goals resolutions and salutations too all happy new year
    " I'd rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy "

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    • #3

      Thanks Brady - as usual, a very informative post. Keep em coming.

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      • #4

        Brady: A bit curious that the juvenile forehead "triangle" is still a shadow on #1. I would have expected it to disappear entirely by that age. At what age does it go away in this cross?

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        • #5

          Hi Mike,

          I don't see that as going away, but rather emerging, forming sumi that connects the shoulder with the right side nose. A small area of sumi has reached the surface just above the eyes in the center of the head.

          Best Wishes,
          Brady Brandwood

          Comment

          • #6

            Brady,
            was surprised that no one commented on thier likes of the koi shown. if i were picking from among the tosai, I'd favor the 2nd from the left. I too like knowing where the koi is from and the heritage. I own six koi and two are showa! Both purchased as two year olds. One from Daiiniichi, the other from igarashi kazuto. From your last posting i learned alittle bit about your stock and some of the koi that you have produced. Very impressive results and always appreciated when your in your teaching mode. (always liked to catch Toshio Sakai when he was in like mood).
            Happy New year Partner!
            Dick Benbow

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            • #7

              The three '03 showa all have uniformly distributed hi. Most showa we have to choose from do not have this. The strong hi in the latter 1/3 segment is remarkable. I bet these these koi are NOT for sale. Brady, what do the parents look like? Joe

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              • #8

                Showas

                Hi the Mikes, Dan, Dick, & Joe, Happy New Year!

                So Dick, what you're saying is that my other mode of "School Bus Humor" has less to offer society?

                Hi Joe,

                I don't have any recent photos of my Showa parentstock. I use 3 American born males, descended from Yamaguchi & Takeda, and a Japanese born female from Takeda for this group. These tosai don't resemble their parents on the surface - SMG recently visited and asked to see the parents of her Showa "USA", - I showed her the mother, and the father, and she stood there dumbfounded, wondering how such a jewel can come from these "Carp". The right combinations really are golden.

                Best Wishes,
                Brady Brandwood

                SMG meditating by a male pond.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Ha ha. You rascal for posting that.

                  I could hardly be pried away from those ponds. Looking at my fish's big old mother, she in another pond, really opened my eyes to see beyond pattern and color. What quality, what class. My girl has the same skeletal structure as her mom, the same Brady shiro, the same way of moving even. That dad fish......well......he was... like a school bus individual from the back seat. Brady must have seen something in him, obviously.

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                  • #10

                    Brady!! One of the main reasons I signed on to this board was for insights, nohows, wisdom, lies :twisted: of folks such as your illustrious self! (I like the 3rd from left.) Dang!
                    I've been doing a lot of comparing of fish through ages lately (nothing else to do in 6F16mph [email protected]!$#*&amp and your post was right up my alley. Thank you!
                    Happy new year to you all (I'd say "y'all" but that might seem like I ACTUALLY live in your part of the world!??)
                    Al

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Brady: Your lesson is well appreciated. I definitely would think I was looking at the typical juvenile head markings that usually disappear in the 2d year. Knowing that it could be sumi shadows for future development changes the entire perspective. Knowing the older sibling truly does matter.

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                      • #12

                        Brady, I wonder if the#1 fish might have a different father than the other three? Are you sure it is not from that asagi black type throwing male who's kids have the shallow baby type sumi that goes away, moves around and comes up from underneath, asagi looking while in the process? Here those other three and USA look like from the dad who's sumi pretty much stays put, the back seat individual.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Showas

                          Hi SMG,

                          I'll e-mail you some pics of one of your Showa "USA's" sibling from '03 - really quite different than these 4 Showas.

                          Best Wishes,
                          Brady Brandwood

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Breeding

                            This discussion with Brady is interesting. I recently crossed a black female with a black and white male bekko with gin rin scales both of unknow Japanese parentage but quite good stock. I got about 150 offspring 6 full black and quite a few greys and some even with orange on their sides very few straight black and whites so far they are only 1-4 inches in size but the amazing thing is 6 have the same phenotype as the mother even though this mix is in there the Bekko male in recent years has an orange spot that has shown up on his side. The last time I used a black and white male with this female I got quite a few black and white offspring
                            The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              fry 56,

                              Did you get any gin rin scaled ? sounds like your bekko male was a sanke at one time in an earlier life!

                              isn't alberta known for it's peaches? I think they named a variety after
                              your neck of the woods. I'm thinking there's a famous breeder in japan known as "peach-boy"
                              Dick Benbow

                              Comment

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