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  • Spawning

    Hello once again. I have a question for everyone I had 2 female Koi's spawn this year. Lucky I caught them in time before they started. So the night before the spawning took place I set up two breeding tanks, one for each female with thier own spawning mops and pumps. This is my first time spawning my kois actually. When is the best time to start culling ?and secound what percentage would the kois fry be ? Here is the parent of the two spawning.

    Tank 1: I had my 4yr old Butterfly Hariwake/female spawn with my 2 1/2 yr old Kohaku and 3 yr old Sanke males.

    Tank 2: I had 3 yr old Platinum Ogon female which she spawn with a 2 yr old Sanke male and 2 yr old Showa Male
  • #2

    You have such a mix of genes in each spawning tank that there is just no telling what matter of fish could pop up. I'd suggest you decide on a goal for each spawning and cull down to no more than 10% of the fry after 1 month (or sooner if you can tell what you have.) Since you used metallic females in both spawnings, I'm guessing you like metallics. So, why not aim for super shiny longfins in the first batch, and kin showa in the second batch? If you go for kin showa, you can cull everything that lacks black right away. Then cull everything that lacks shine after 30 days. That should get you down to relatively few fish to raise.

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    • #3

      Originally posted by MikeM View Post
      You have such a mix of genes in each spawning tank that there is just no telling what matter of fish could pop up. I'd suggest you decide on a goal for each spawning and cull down to no more than 10% of the fry after 1 month (or sooner if you can tell what you have.) Since you used metallic females in both spawnings, I'm guessing you like metallics. So, why not aim for super shiny longfins in the first batch, and kin showa in the second batch? If you go for kin showa, you can cull everything that lacks black right away. Then cull everything that lacks shine after 30 days. That should get you down to relatively few fish to raise.

      Well when I originally set up my large koi pond I plan on having sanke,showa and Kohaku. But then I found Butterfly Hariwake & Platinum which I feel in love with at a koi farm. Since this was my first time to spawning any of my kois, I try'd mixing up the kois to see the out come would be, and see what I might need to change in the next spawning season.

      So, I think your right Mike I'll seat down tonight and figure out a goal for each spawning and start planing the culling process and getting them down to 10%. So I need to look for anything with shiny longfins in the 1st breeding tank and then look for possible kin showa in the secound tank.

      Thanks Mike for the help.

      Comment

      • #4

        Originally posted by DobbyKoi View Post
        Well when I originally set up my large koi pond I plan on having sanke,showa and Kohaku. But then I found Butterfly Hariwake & Platinum which I feel in love with at a koi farm. Since this was my first time to spawning any of my kois, I try'd mixing up the kois to see the out come would be, and see what I might need to change in the next spawning season.
        To me this would be like mixing up different breeds of dogs to see what the out come would be.

        The outcome is a bunch of "mutts".

        When you cross a Kohaku (from a known Japanese breeder) with a Butterfly Hariwake (from an American breeder) you are basically undoing years and generations of selective breeding in my opinion.

        Comment

        • #5

          Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
          To me this would be like mixing up different breeds of dogs to see what the out come would be.

          The outcome is a bunch of "mutts".

          When you cross a Kohaku (from a known Japanese breeder) with a Butterfly Hariwake (from an American breeder) you are basically undoing years and generations of selective breeding in my opinion.
          That probably is true ricshaw, this is my first time even spawning the kois and I haven't put really much thought into the genetic part, I'm still learning about their gentic and what koi bloodline goes with what..Probably by when the next spawning season I'll do a better job in pairing the kois,so by then I would get more since of what their gentics/bloodline is. I'm still learning things everyday that I didn't know about kois. Thats why I'm glad I have the internet and bookstores.

          Thank,
          J

          Comment

          • #6

            Originally posted by DobbyKoi View Post
            That probably is true ricshaw, this is my first time even spawning the kois and I haven't put really much thought into the genetic part, I'm still learning about their gentic and what koi bloodline goes with what..Probably by when the next spawning season I'll do a better job in pairing the kois,so by then I would get more since of what their gentics/bloodline is. I'm still learning things everyday that I didn't know about kois. Thats why I'm glad I have the internet and bookstores.
            Thank,
            J
            ???

            Was this an unplanned accidental Koi pond spawn or

            was this a "planned" spawning attempt by you?

            I have had "gang Koi spawn" in my pond and have saved some of the fry and watched them grow. It is fun to watch them grow.
            Eventually, they ALL end up in the local pet store feeder goldfish bin.

            Comment

            • #7

              Originally posted by DobbyKoi View Post
              That probably is true ricshaw, this is my first time even spawning the kois and I haven't put really much thought into the genetic part, I'm still learning about their gentic and what koi bloodline goes with what..Probably by when the next spawning season I'll do a better job in pairing the kois,so by then I would get more since of what their gentics/bloodline is. I'm still learning things everyday that I didn't know about kois. Thats why I'm glad I have the internet and bookstores.
              Thank,
              J
              My advice is to pair like varieties together ie: Kohaku to Kohaku.

              Comment

              • #8

                Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
                ???

                Was this an unplanned accidental Koi pond spawn or

                was this a "planned" spawning attempt by you?

                I have had "gang Koi spawn" in my pond and have saved some of the fry and watched them grow. It is fun to watch them grow.
                Eventually, they ALL end up in the local pet store feeder goldfish bin.
                Well it kinda a unplanned spawning b/c I just got done doing a big clean up in the big koi pond 2 days earlier,and already new that soon spawning season was going to start. I didnt think that I would possible triger off the spawn,b/c of the water changes, but a friend told me that might caused them to spawn early. So by the following day I noticed that the female's was starting to be chased by the males in the pond. So later that day I started to put up the holding tanks just in case they started to spawn. By the following morning they started early so lucky I caught them in time before they did anything and placed each koi in a tank left only 2 males with one female and after they got done spawning I placed the males back in my pond and placed both girls in the same hold tank. So by the time everything was done I really didnt put much thought on pairing or genetics b/c I thought I had more time then I did.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by DobbyKoi View Post
                  Well it kinda a unplanned spawning b/c I just got done doing a big clean up in the big koi pond 2 days earlier,and already new that soon spawning season was going to start. I didnt think that I would possible triger off the spawn,b/c of the water changes, but a friend told me that might caused them to spawn early. So by the following day I noticed that the female's was starting to be chased by the males in the pond. So later that day I started to put up the holding tanks just in case they started to spawn. By the following morning they started early so lucky I caught them in time before they did anything and placed each koi in a tank left only 2 males with one female and after they got done spawning I placed the males back in my pond and placed both girls in the same hold tank. So by the time everything was done I really didnt put much thought on pairing or genetics b/c I thought I had more time then I did.
                  Yep, water changes and full moons can trigger a spawning.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
                    To me this would be like mixing up different breeds of dogs to see what the out come would be.

                    The outcome is a bunch of "mutts".

                    When you cross a Kohaku (from a known Japanese breeder) with a Butterfly Hariwake (from an American breeder) you are basically undoing years and generations of selective breeding in my opinion.
                    Really you are not "undoing" anything. You still have your Japanese fish and your American fish. A first spawning attempt IS very unlikely to make a grand champion, but will give insight into the difficulty of breeding champions and raising and culling fry. If you do well and love it then maybe that is the time to invest in fish of a better bloodline and attempt improving the breeding. This is still not likely to happen with a hobbiest. But the hobbiest CAN have fun and improve his koi husbandry. AND maybe get a pretty homebred.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Originally posted by GloriaL View Post
                      Really you are not "undoing" anything. You still have your Japanese fish and your American fish. A first spawning attempt IS very unlikely to make a grand champion, but will give insight into the difficulty of breeding champions and raising and culling fry. If you do well and love it then maybe that is the time to invest in fish of a better bloodline and attempt improving the breeding. This is still not likely to happen with a hobbiest. But the hobbiest CAN have fun and improve his koi husbandry. AND maybe get a pretty homebred.
                      I disagree and my point was not there are Japanese fish and American fish.
                      My point was the Kohaku has been selected for certain qualities and a metallic long-fin Koi has been selected for different qualities.

                      Japanese Koi breeders have been "selecting" for certain qualities for a hundred years, just like man (dog breeders) have been "selecting" (much longer) for certain qualities to produce all the different dog breeds.

                      If you start breeding Koi willy-nilly, this to that, you are starting the process of deselecting back to the original wild carp.

                      I agree it is fun for the hobbyist to raise Koi fry from a pond "gang spawn".
                      Just realize what the professional breeders have done with rigid selection to get the carp we call "Nishikigoi"

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Well by the next spawning I'll know who I'll be forsure placing together. I hoping to atleast get a few good looking kois from each selection. When do koi fry actually start showing color at the fry stage ? Is it 4 weeks or 6 weeks.

                        Comment

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