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Politics aside...Who is not offended by this?!?!

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  • Politics aside...Who is not offended by this?!?!

    Since I deal with seniors in my office, we get the AARP bulletin. This month, they have a list of books that are banned in schools and libraries throughout the country. I am reading this list, and it is some of the greatest literature I have ever read. I was appalled that my daughter may never read and discuss these books as part of a school ciriculum. A few on the list that really got to me
    Animal farm, the grapes of wrath and 1984 for being too political.

    the origin of species by Darwin, the lord of the rings and the harry potter series for being irreligious?!?!

    The next are for being socially offensive..and I am freaked!!
    The diary of Anne Frank???
    The catcher in the rye, the color purple, of mice and men...and 3 of my personal favorite books I have ever read:
    Farenheit 451, The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, and Brave New World!!...If you have not had the priveledge of reading these three..read them!!

    I understand that some on the list may not be appropriate for certain age groups...but, this is insanity!! Just crazy and sad. It actually seems ironic that Farenheit 451 is on the list. What can I say...my heart sank when I read the list.
    sigpic

    If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.
  • #2

    Just sat down in my chair for a moment, and for once you bring something to the table worth talking about!!!!!!!!!!!

    Are your eyes opening??????

    This country is getting more and more screwed up each and every day! You can call Larry me and who ever else right wingers, but stuff like this is what is pissing people in this country off, i.e. tea parties etc.

    The law makers/politicans as a whole are ruining this country, doesn't matter left or right.

    I was just thinking this morning of all the freedoms I had as a child that my son and your daughter won't have because of stupid laws.

    My son can't drive any of his boats till he's 16. I was turned loose on boats before I can remember. Pretty sad.

    If you'll remember from previous threads, I have stated that the government is going to tell us what to eat, how to chit, and when to breathe.

    Maybe this might open your eyes a smidge to the sad downturn of the freedoms of this country.

    They're slowly being taking away from us year by year.
    “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed” Adolf Hitler


    Chris~

    Comment

    • #3

      Listen..there are some things that need laws. I think driving a boat is the equivalent of driving a car or motorcycle. I want a responsible licensed adult doing it. (I had a friend whose leg was chopped up from boat engine..so, i can tell you how dangerous they can be). I see the need for a drinking age..and the laws regarding it. It bears no repeating that I want ridiculously tough gun laws. But..literature is a whole other ballgame. With this type of thing, you are limiting a persons ability to learn,think and form opinions. I can personally say that in high school, we read farenheit 451 by ray bradbury. More than any other book I have read, it had a deep profound affect on my beliefs about life and our society. To think my daughter may never read and discuss that in a classroom, boggles my mind. It seems my greatest fears that arose from the book, came about from it's banning. I am shocked by it all
      sigpic

      If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.

      Comment

      • #4

        I will say I have seen way more than a chopped up leg............ My job is boats. I disagree with the law, yet me and how many others survived........... Yes accidents happen. That's why they are called accidents. But for a handful of accidents the rest are penalized.

        My child has free run of my shop and everything else, we don't have cabinet locks, or plug covers. He's turned on my tablesaw ONCE. I made sure he didn't touch that button again, and that was over a year ago. I didn't put up barricades. You'll probably slam me for that, but I understand that accidents happen it's part of life.

        Many people now want to shield their child from any wrong doings, yet if they don't fall down a scrape their knee, how will they learn to not do it again? I want my child to learn right from wrong and if he gets cut or bruised along the way, it's nothing I didn't go through! Accidents happen!

        Someone was offended by the reading material, and everyone else is penalized.

        You post this yet you can't grasp what's wrong with the big picture??????????
        “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed” Adolf Hitler


        Chris~

        Comment

        • #5

          Geez, I was feeling pretty good tonight until I read this. That list is appalling. I've read almost all of those and most in the classroom.

          Yet about 15 years ago, I think it was, my son came home from school with Stephen King's "Gerald's Game". I said OMG, what's this? Where did you get this? From the school library. For those unfamiliar, it starts with a husband and wife playing-out in the bedroom, the wife tied to the bed, etc. I won't spoil it for those who didn't read it but the beginning, I think you'll agree, was totally inappropriate for junior high at that time. I was shocked and wrote letters to each member of the school board telling them what the book was about.

          I love Stephen King and have read everything he ever wrote (excluding cooperative writings) many times but that particular book was inappropriate for young children.

          But the books on this list here? That is just too too sad that our kids and grandkids will not experience truly excellent literature at its best and the feelings and questions these books evoke. What the crap is this world coming to????
          ...enjoy your day!
          5500 gllns, Ultima II 4000, Tarpon 6000, 1 Multi-Cyclone Prefilter, 2 - 5500 gph pumps, 1 Retro BD, 1 skimmer, max depth 4', 5% trickle 24/7 weather permitting

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          • #6

            honestly BANNED? across the country? or is it teen rumors because your district has made these choices?
            Brutus, our high schools summer reading lists has been shocking, and definatly has an agenda. None of them are classics, it was explained to me that we are beating our children to death with the classics, boring them to tears. There fore we must engage them with exciting modern reading....suprise ! books from Oprah's best sellers list, and the next season's new movie, excuse me while I gag.
            here is my exchange with the school over it last year......


            *MY FIRST CONTACT WITH SCHOOL*
            "I have just seen the summer reading list for Honors English this year.
            I am appalled that the our children mostly have choices between rape, sex and incest for their summer reading!
            I have read "A Thousand Splendid Suns" myself, it is about the brutal abusive life of women in Afghanistan under the Taliban rule. It was EXTREMELY physically and sexually violent, NOT what my 15 year old son or daughter needs to read.
            I started "Lovely Bones" but did not finish it as I was not enjoying reading the details of the rape and murder of a little girl or the pain it put her family through.
            I have not heard of "Ellen Foster" so I did a search and found a summery of it. A lovely story of an abusive father and husband who goes as far as to sexually abusing his preteen daughter.
            ...so I guess that leaves the pickings between a story about football coach who assaults his players who then later in life struggle with the love hate relationship it leaves them with at his deathbed, or the story of two wrestlers one of which is worried his girlfriend is pregnant?
            I respectfully ask if I may offer, with your approval, some other choices? perhaps a classic?
            I am very confused as to how or who came up with the list presented."

            *SCHOOL RESPONSE*
            "I appreciate your concern but a lot of thought and research went in the choices on the summer reading list this year. As a department we focused on Readicide and found many truths to the book. We were killing our students with classics over the summer. As a result, they were not reading; instead, they were Sparknoting the novels. So, the "classics" were ineffective. Also, as a teacher of AP Lit. I have had first-hand dealings with many of these reads which are on the AP question lists. The Lovely Bones and A Thousand Splendid Suns are both on the list. If your child is in Pre-AP, it is my assumption that he/she will continue on the AP track. These novels are essential to that track.
            The greatest of literature is about the human condition and most of the human condition is about suffering. I do not think we read and analyze a "classic" novel/play (which are classics such as Oedipus, Caesar, Antigone, Macbeth, Things Fall Apart) which is not about incest, murder, rape or pillaging. Maybe regular is a better choice for your child if your concerns are about the material he/she is reading. Please contact the guidance department if you feel that your child is not mature enough to handle the material in the novels and plays we will read this year. Again, I appreciate your concern and if there is anything else I can do, please let me know,"

            *MY TURN *
            "Thank you for your time Ms XXXXXXX,
            My intention in voicing my concerns was to find a resolution and am disappointed that your first inclination was to suggest pulling my son from the program.
            I would like you to know I am not usually a difficult parent. I have never before questioned the literature assignments. Last year although unhappy with the required book (I am Catholic and consider some of the book offensive), my son read the book, and we discussed passages that I felt needed to be addressed. This year, although initially my response to booklist was positive (my sonhad choices), later I was appalled that the choices seem to consist only of gratuitous sex, graphic violence or empty fluff.
            I had not heard of "Readicide," but if the author is trying to help teachers inspire a life time love for reading in their students more power to him! I agree that you can kill students with the heavy reading some classics entail over a summer read.
            We will both be reading John Grisham's Bleachers, as I, too, have not read this one. Hopefully, the English departments choice ofa lighter summer read will engage my son's desire to read.
            I am aware the greatest of literature is about the human condition and much of that involves suffering and also realize in an AP class these things will be analyzed. However, analyzing incest, rape, murder or pillaging from the classic literature you have listed is far different from the explicit writings in A Thousand Splendid Suns or The Lovely Bones. Is explicit what now qualifies for advanced reading material?
            I agree that A Thousand Splendid Suns is an important and well written work that exposes the terrible fate of a whole society of women. I am sure it was risky for the safety of the author to publish it.
            Will A Thousand Splendid Suns or The Lovely Bones be considered great literature? Will they one day be as acceptable to read aloud in the classroom as Oedipus? Only time will tell.
            again, thank you for your time"


            **THE SCHOOL'S RETREAT( they don't advertize that there is always a list of classics as alternatives to books parents find unacceptable irregardles of which level class a child is in, but if no one knows how do you know to ask for them!)**

            "You are welcome and I certainly do not consider a parent with concerns difficult. I forgot to attach the possible classics your child may choose from, and for that, I apologize.
            The list is: A Tale of Two Cities
            Moby Dick
            Heart of Darkness
            Let me clarify the literary merit of the two wonderful novels, The Lovely Bones and A Thousand Splendid Suns. I also teach AP Lit. to seniors and both of these novels have appeared on the FRQ #3 list in the past 5 years. They are high-interest, real-world ready for many students, which makes them an overall friendly choice. However, they do deal with difficult real-life themes which are horrible and (thankfully) many students do not themselves have to encounter. This opens life up to the students in a relevant to AP and 10th grade way. As for your disappointment in my recommending your child be moved from Pre-AP, I apologize but what I got from your e-mail was that difficult themes such as rape and incest were too much for your child to handle. Let me clarify this point as well. Oedipus, Antigone, Things Fall Apart, Kite Runner or A Separate Peace, Caesar, Macbeth and a choice read from a list just as AP friendly is what we will cover all year long. Each of these "classics" cover rape, incest, murder and other themes that you pointed out were issues to mature for your child to read. That is why I suggested Pre-AP might not be the best for your child. If you are saying there are no issues to reading, discussing and analyzing these mature themes, I apologize, I misread your e-mail. Hopefully you understand where I (and the rest of my colleagues) are coming from! It is certainly difficult to please all involved, but our goal is to inspire a love of reading which lays the foundation for analysis and success in Pre-AP, AP, college and finally real life. I hope this clarifies and I hope to see your child in the Pre-AP program."


            yeah sure she does!

            that was last year, this summer he read A Narrative of Fredrick Douglas, which was the only well written decent choice, and he read In Cold Blood which was compulsory.
            In Cold Blood is the first book I have not read prior to him doing so, he gave it a scathing review in his written report and told me it was "disgusting"

            it makes one wonder how many parents blindly trust the schools and have no clue as to what thier children are reading

            Comment

            • #7

              Betcha the Q'uran isn't on the "Banned" list anywhere...
              Betcha the same public Libraries that banned the books on your list have an adult section with current issues of Playboy, Penthouse, etc... available. The American Library Association raised holy hell when people objected to them being available to teens a few years back. They even took it to court on "free speech" grounds.
              The Diary of Anne Frank? Probably too "pro-Jewish" for our new "enlightened era of tolerance" of holocaust denying Imams. Animal Farm and Brave New World? We live there, so who needs to read about it anyway. Next years "AP Summer Reading Program" will likely be an advanced course in "New Speak".
              Larry Iles
              Oklahoma

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              • #8

                Something we can agree on. While I also agree some reading material is not appropriate for some ages, I am not generally agreeable to banning books.

                I've read everything mentioned so far......some of it great, some of it not so.

                One of the best books I ever read was given me by my youngest daughter as it was one of her "required reading" books when she was in high school. The basic gist, "the end justifies the means" the book is extremely violent and it is children perpetrating the violence at the behest of adults. Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game." Also required reading for students at The Air Force Academy. Among the greatest books I've read.

                Probably both daughter's favorite books are the "Harry Potter" series. Neither has become a Wiccan or decided to drop Christianity as a result.

                As a child I was an avid reader, still am. Because so much of life's pleasure comes from reading, I've encouraged it in my children strongly. I like the movies, but ever notice how the movie is never as good as the book? What is lacking in the movie is your own imagination.

                The banned list, most of those I read in high school. Banned in my school, "Jaws" and "Sounder" both of which I went out and immidietly got copies upon thier being banned at school. Banning books doesn;t work. Kind of like banning guns.

                Banning Fahrenheit 451, now that is poetic!

                I encouraged my kids to read all those books and more. They both loved "Heart of Darkness" as well as Most of the other classics. To my great disappointment, they never got much into Twain. I've read all his works and most of his letters. Lots in there to be offended at. If I decided not to read anything that offended me, I'd not get to read much.

                Banning some books is a good first step, kind of like banning lead in bullets. Makes one wonder, what is the next step, and where do these steps lead?
                Brett

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                • #9

                  Banning books is the beginning of the end.

                  However, letting children read age inappropriate literature (and for some of books I use the word literature loosely) is wrong.

                  Sexualizing children robs them of their innocence. Bad enough they get that crap from TV and music. I was appalled at the way one of my grandsons talked about 'hot' singers at age ten when he should have been more excited about a mountain bike or snake.

                  They have many years to grow up and read adult subject matter.

                  The brain and psyche are like like a roach motel: graphic scenes go in but they don't come out.

                  Garbage in. Garbage out.

                  We don't let them smoke, drink or drive until they're of age. Reading age inappropriate material full of sex and violence can be just as hurtful on a psychological level.

                  The right teacher can make the classics come alive even for today's young people.
                  ...enjoy your day!
                  5500 gllns, Ultima II 4000, Tarpon 6000, 1 Multi-Cyclone Prefilter, 2 - 5500 gph pumps, 1 Retro BD, 1 skimmer, max depth 4', 5% trickle 24/7 weather permitting

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by Peppy View Post
                    Banning books is the beginning of the end.

                    However, letting children read age inappropriate literature (and for some of books I use the word literature loosely) is wrong.

                    Sexualizing children robs them of their innocence. Bad enough they get that crap from TV and music. I was appalled at the way one of my grandsons talked about 'hot' singers at age ten when he should have been more excited about a mountain bike or snake.

                    They have many years to grow up and read adult subject matter.

                    The brain and psyche are like like a roach motel: graphic scenes go in but they don't come out.

                    Garbage in. Garbage out.

                    We don't let them smoke, drink or drive until they're of age. Reading age inappropriate material full of sex and violence can be just as hurtful on a psychological level.

                    The right teacher can make the classics come alive even for today's young people.
                    thank you
                    banning books from the public is a totally different issue than what is on a reading list for school children


                    Brett, Heart of Darkness is the book my son ended up reading last summer, it was a difficult read (as in understanding it all) It opened a lot of discussion. Then we watched Apocalypts Now, wonder how may realize it is the same story! we took mental notes on how closely the two story's lines ran, and then had lots more to talk about.
                    Nothing is an orriginal thought any more.....'cept perhaps ERIC
                    oh, I stand corrected, my boy just informed me that Snakes On A Plane is too!

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Originally posted by PapaBear View Post
                      Betcha the Q'uran isn't on the "Banned" list anywhere...
                      Betcha the same public Libraries that banned the books on your list have an adult section with current issues of Playboy, Penthouse, etc... available. The American Library Association raised holy hell when people objected to them being available to teens a few years back. They even took it to court on "free speech" grounds.
                      The Diary of Anne Frank? Probably too "pro-Jewish" for our new "enlightened era of tolerance" of holocaust denying Imams. Animal Farm and Brave New World? We live there, so who needs to read about it anyway. Next years "AP Summer Reading Program" will likely be an advanced course in "New Speak".
                      Playboy and penthouse available to teens??? I had to sneak looks at them when I was that age The intolerance is certainly not on one side of the fence. All the books labeled irreligious were the work of the bible belt and conservatives. You know the witchcraft in that harry potter book....it's the work of the DEVIL!!! bible thumpers...probably the group I dislike the most!!! No logic, no deep thought...just a form of brain washing and mind control.
                      sigpic

                      If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        I had a "rural' license back in the day.Drove a 24 foot flatbed. Legally.At 14 !

                        I think all students should have 3 mandatory reads.
                        Confessions of an economic hit man.
                        Hoodwinked
                        Affluenza

                        I began packing my bags in 2004 for the above stated reasons.
                        Have fun.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Senior Thesis...

                          This is the most impossible NOT to be offended by thing I think I've ever heard of This young "Lady" used this as her Senior Thesis... I hope to god she wasn't receiving any taxpayer funded grants or scholarships for her time at Duke... I'm also hoping the got the biggest F- in history for her "efforts".

                          On Campus Drama | Campus Life, College Photos, Funny Videos, College Blog
                          Larry Iles
                          Oklahoma

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                          • #14

                            Originally posted by PapaBear View Post
                            This is the most impossible NOT to be offended by thing I think I've ever heard of This young "Lady" used this as her Senior Thesis... I hope to god she wasn't receiving any taxpayer funded grants or scholarships for her time at Duke... I'm also hoping the got the biggest F- in history for her "efforts".

                            On Campus Drama | Campus Life, College Photos, Funny Videos, College Blog

                            Holy cow...I think I KNOW that girl!!! LOL!!! Maybe 20yrs ago
                            sigpic

                            If your desire to succeed is greater than your desire to fail, then you will succeed.

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                            • #15

                              I sure do enjoy getting my morning laughs now coming to Bito to read in the "outside" section. Almost as good as Jon Stewart!

                              Larry......my daughter turned down a scholarship to Duke to attend Hanover College. So obviously I was interested in this "thesis". SInce my daughter *could* have been exposed to these kind of horrible influences as a senior this year.
                              Luckily, this was a JOKE that she sent to three friends. Not a thesis. I thought that was kind of obvious.....
                              Honestly, I surprised this girl could maintain her honors status with this kind of social life.......

                              Comment

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