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  • Kohaku or Sanke?

    So, I remember reading somewhere that just a little shimi mark on a kohaku will not make it a sanke...

    If so, what would this koi be in the picture?
    Attached Files
  • #2

    those do not look like shimmies to me. Looks like a poor example of sanke.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

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    • #3

      Originally posted by MCA View Post
      those do not look like shimmies to me. Looks like a poor example of sanke.
      Ahh ic... So how do you exactly differentiate a shimi mark?

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      • #4

        A shimmie is a mineral deposit on the surface of the skin or scale. It can be rubbed off with the edge of your fingernail. That is very different from sumi black pigment that begins in the deep layers of the skin. When sumi is good quality it looks like a bottomless pool of black laquer.
        Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

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        • #5

          A shimi usually only involved one scale or less. Although a fish can have more than one shimi spot. But again...they are very small. If it's multiple larger spots or spots that are coming up from below (as opposed to sitting on to of the scale), it's not a shimi....it's sumi.

          that fish is a sanke.

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          • #6

            oh okay, thanks for the clarification!

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            • #7

              Originally posted by poisonXvenom View Post

              If so, what would this koi be in the picture?
              Poor example of Kohaku.

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              • #8

                I'd say a Sanke.

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                • #9

                  do yo own this koi?
                  i see possibly 6 spots of sumi coming up starting at dorsal and on the way back.few spots from shoulder to to front of dorsal will help balance this koi and make the small beni spots better and more full of a pattern.
                  even then sorry would still be a pond quality sanke.
                  Paul Korf

                  member of:
                  Midwest Pond and Koi Society
                  Louisville Koi club
                  IKONA

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                  • #10

                    Originally posted by pskorf View Post
                    do yo own this koi?
                    i see possibly 6 spots of sumi coming up starting at dorsal and on the way back.few spots from shoulder to to front of dorsal will help balance this koi and make the small beni spots better and more full of a pattern.
                    even then sorry would still be a pond quality sanke.
                    I don't own it. Its just from online.

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                    • #11

                      Originally posted by redman View Post
                      I'd say a Sanke.
                      Does it make any difference if the Koi in question came from a Kohaku line breeding?

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                      • #12

                        It does not matter what the genetics are; the sumi speaks for its self. You can get pure black fish, white fish and solid orange fish from a kohaku line breeding, but that does not make them kohaku because their parents were kohaku. Many koi that are sold as kohaku have sanke genetics. Many fish sold as shiro utsuri are from Showa breedings. The variety is dependent on the characterists of the individual fish.

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                        • #13

                          Originally posted by CarolinaGirl View Post
                          It does not matter what the genetics are; the sumi speaks for its self. You can get pure black fish, white fish and solid orange fish from a kohaku line breeding, but that does not make them kohaku because their parents were kohaku. Many koi that are sold as kohaku have sanke genetics. Many fish sold as shiro utsuri are from Showa breedings. The variety is dependent on the characterists of the individual fish.
                          So, in your opinion, a Kohaku with one tiny speck of black on the back is a Sanke and if the tiny speck of black is on the head it is a Showa?

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                          • #14

                            Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
                            So, in your opinion, a Kohaku with one tiny speck of black on the back is a Sanke and if the tiny speck of black is on the head it is a Showa?

                            A showa is a black based koi with white and red markings. A dot of sumi on the head doesn't make it a showa. Nor a sanke for that matter. It could be a shimmie on a kohaku.

                            The sanke pictured in this thread has underlying sumi. No such thing as underlying shimmies.

                            Here's a pic of a shimmie and some fellow appears to be taking a microscope slide to it to remove it.

                            Grant
                            Attached Files

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                            • #15

                              Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
                              So, in your opinion, a Kohaku with one tiny speck of black on the back is a Sanke and if the tiny speck of black is on the head it is a Showa?
                              no, that's not at all what I said. In my first post on this thread, I said that the if the sumi covers more than one scale or is coming up from below (as in unfinished sumi), it's not a kohaku. Any kohaku can have a shimi spot and still be a kohaku. And I never said a tiny speck of sumi on the head makes it a showa either. The koi that is pictured though does not have one tiny sumi spot...it has larger spots that are yet to emerge and they are much larger than one scale. Sumi comes from below, shimi sits on top of the scale. There are many other factors regarding sumi placement and style that make the distinction between showa and sanke.

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