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  • [QUOTE=Suzy;172369]
    Originally posted by DrCreosote View Post

    I see what you mean. Slander and libel have been used on a public forum.
    As the person proffering these has no proof of what he says, we must assume that he is a fool. And a very bitter and jealous man.

    Alas, we on this forum have been subjected to hearing his ramblings.
    The "accused" has been obliged to reveal certain private aspects of his life in order to show his good faith and honesty. If that seems moral to you, I pity you deeply.

    International court of law? Let me chuckle. That's not money, that's a colossal fortune and you know it. If I were to win the big prize at the National Lottery, I'd never waste the money on taking an abject liar to court.
    This is of course my personal point of view. It has nothing to do with the nasty things which we all have been reading for far too long here.

    If you could stop the pedantry, you'd render everyone a huge service.
    In return, I promise not to nip at Amanda's heels!
    The accused is the master of his own words. He responds to questions as he wishes and does so on his own schedule. This is not a criticism, it is the way he is. He was not obligated to share any private details, nor was he obligated to confirm or deny any of the accuser's allegations. He chose to do it himself, though there was pressure on him from the forum to do so, it was still his decision.

    If you were running a business that depended on sales in a market sullied by allegations that you believed to be false, you should pursue that in the courts or find some way to settle it. It is not an unusual thing for a company to pay "hush money" to an accuser, but the problem goes away. Abject liars cost companies millions if the lies go unaddressed and unchallenged. In essence, Peter is challenging the allegations in his own way. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not. I can't say I agree with the method he's chosen, but if it works, I won't argue with it. While there is a field known as "Public Relations" and there is science behind it, it is not an exact science. At the worst, Peter is allowing his professional reputation to suffer, at the best, he is getting his name more well known. Which is better is hard to know.

    As for me being a pedant. I am well educated and I teach university business courses (I also have a degree in English). Doing so puts me in a position to know how things of a business nature are supposed to work and how they usually work. I am participating in this thread because I saw a question I felt compelled to answer. Adding some snide remarks about the caliber of many of the posters netted me some completely fair criticism for which I have apologized. Sometimes the impulse is greater than the restraint. If calling the misuse of an important term into question brands me a pedant to you, then here I stand in all my pedantry. However, silencing me will not do you a service, nor will it do a service for anyone else.

    Another point you might want to consider is that I am not your enemy. I am not playing to win this or any other argument on this thread. I'm not going to tell you everything you want to hear, but I would expect more than personal insults and invective.
    Sean Stephens

    sigpic

    Comment


    • The thing which stands out to me, is that this seems to be a battle between the two closest Allies on earth, well, in the good old days of Mrs Thatcher and President Reagan.
      But this is a koi battle America Vs UK now.
      Just my observations. Note, it is in Outside, and I feel that both parties have the right to express themselves, if they so wish. However it is a shame, they are just fish after all. But reputations are VITAL. As are the principles, to me, even more so.
      An English koi keeper.
      My late wife http://www.pbase.com/flying_fox_tony/my_beautiful_wife

      Comment


      • Why is it that whenever I post a thread, it turns out to an ugly dispute...

        Comment


        • [QUOTE=DrCreosote;172373]
          Originally posted by Suzy View Post

          The accused is the master of his own words. He responds to questions as he wishes and does so on his own schedule. This is not a criticism, it is the way he is. He was not obligated to share any private details, nor was he obligated to confirm or deny any of the accuser's allegations. He chose to do it himself, though there was pressure on him from the forum to do so, it was still his decision.

          If you were running a business that depended on sales in a market sullied by allegations that you believed to be false, you should pursue that in the courts or find some way to settle it. It is not an unusual thing for a company to pay "hush money" to an accuser, but the problem goes away. Abject liars cost companies millions if the lies go unaddressed and unchallenged. In essence, Peter is challenging the allegations in his own way. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not. I can't say I agree with the method he's chosen, but if it works, I won't argue with it. While there is a field known as "Public Relations" and there is science behind it, it is not an exact science. At the worst, Peter is allowing his professional reputation to suffer, at the best, he is getting his name more well known. Which is better is hard to know.

          As for me being a pedant. I am well educated and I teach university business courses (I also have a degree in English). Doing so puts me in a position to know how things of a business nature are supposed to work and how they usually work. I am participating in this thread because I saw a question I felt compelled to answer. Adding some snide remarks about the caliber of many of the posters netted me some completely fair criticism for which I have apologized. Sometimes the impulse is greater than the restraint. If calling the misuse of an important term into question brands me a pedant to you, then here I stand in all my pedantry. However, silencing me will not do you a service, nor will it do a service for anyone else.

          Another point you might want to consider is that I am not your enemy. I am not playing to win this or any other argument on this thread. I'm not going to tell you everything you want to hear, but I would expect more than personal insults and invective.
          Where are the insults? I am not here to play. Winning or losing have no meaning for me in the instance of this subject. Your post seemed pedantic to me as this present subject is a moral one, not a legal one. Far be it from me to wish to insult you.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by poisonXvenom View Post
            Why is it that whenever I post a thread, it turns out to an ugly dispute...
            This particular dispute has a life of its own that just happened to take root here. It absolutely has nothing to do with you or your post so please don't take any of it personally.
            Larry Iles
            Oklahoma

            Comment


            • Good morning all, Sorry to be away for a bit, but duty called!

              I think we have hit that part of Internet chatter where personalities and teams have jelled on Disagreement. At this point now minds will be influenced as minds are set.
              The ironic think about this is,

              1) I am being compensated by Shintaro, another koi dealer and with help from a shinkokai officer. This is due to THEIR understanding of the situation as it pertains to me and several others and Peter’s general ethics. The dealer in question indeed has a reputation in Japan! The money? Do I like being defrauded out of 15K? Of course not. But fortunately I have a large income, the house is mostly paid for, college has been paid for and I have a large retirement account- so it’s no longer an issue of 15 K. Never was really.

              2) I KNOW where two of my missing fish are- Tim has shared that with me as well as several other British friends and dealers.

              3) I only keep the ‘reminder’ alive when Peter trolls here for innocents as a public service announcement. By the way, why is he here? Never been here in the past?? Think about that one

              4) Rightly or wrongly, I do believe that part of responsibility as an active officer in the amateur koi hobby is to look after the interests of beginners.
              I have received much more criticism from those in the know for NOT saying something earlier. This was a very uncomfortable position to be as I KNEW I had helped lead many referrals into Peter’s hands over the years. It’s something I’m now trying to ‘pay back’. I know Nigel feels the same way.

              5) Folks, I could dummy up and just become part of the ‘general problem’ as opposed to a an attempted solution. But I’ve seen many enthusiastic newbies have their koi keeping joy cut short due to rip offs by unscrupulous dealers- and lost many koi friends as they leave in disgust and a game they just can’t win at. It is way way too common, as the culture surrounding the distribution seems to attract conmen. The simplest reason for this is the fact that there is not fixed, printed or exact price for a koi. The breeder sets one but by the time the customer sees that price it is completely distorted. And conmen have dozens of ways of pulling wool over the wide eyed newbies eyes. And I have indeed shared just a few with you all. I just find it unseemly to see a master “Fagan” deceiving the innocent. So you may see me as a mean spirited disgruntled customer. I point out that I’m now made whole thanks to contacts—contacts that others do not have. I then ask, Is this an everyman for himself hobby? Or do we look after one another? One man’s pain in the side is another man’s whistle blower. You decide. JR

              Comment


              • JasPR, just a quick question from me then... if you don't mind me asking...

                When Tim told you where your other two fish were, did he tell you he sold one of yours? or why he sold it? etc etc...

                Would be really interested to know...

                Cheers

                Andy

                Comment


                • No wonder you've been absent, you're in a corner now aren't you?

                  Now before you come on with a load of your latest lies Slimeball - you have many old lies still unanswered.

                  One thing is certain your trusted informants are FAR more beneficial to me than they are to you!

                  Here goes: -

                  I was on the company payroll - it's in the records - expand please.

                  The Liquidation - expand please.

                  The Auctions held - expand please.

                  The Auctions I attended - expand please.

                  The Two godfathers/ex-partners - expand please.

                  Was it 35% or 21%?

                  The Mock illness - expand please (I know much about mock illnesses, you taught me about them remember?)

                  Killas, Blishok - no further comments?

                  Your views on Tim's honesty - comments?

                  After you've thought of answers for these lies we'll deal with your latest set of lies.

                  You can't keep throwing wild innuendos out based on what you have been told and then pretending you never threw them can you now?

                  You really do not have a trace of credibility and all I have to do is tell the truth.

                  MY NAME IS PETER WADDINGTON.

                  Comment


                  • OK, both involved parties have addressed their sides of the story. However, no one here can authenticate the presented facts. Since both Peter and Jim have done many great things for the koi hobby, this thread does not do any good for both of them. I suggest Peter and Jim to take this somewhere else or meet face to face and work their problem. And no more "JR vs Waddy" on this forum.

                    I haven't closed any thread yet. Let me have the honor to close this thread.

                    Best,
                    --Dinh

                    Comment


                    • Ooops, there's loads more, they just keep coming up!

                      'Showa with a scar' I bought from Isumiya or your man 'Isumya' - Expand and enlighten please.

                      You see Slimy, I give answers to ALL questions raised whilst you just continue to duck and dive in order to avoid the issue.

                      MY NAME IS PETER WADDINGTON.

                      Comment


                      • Thread is now closed.

                        My name is SF Giants Baby ;-))

                        Comment

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