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Need SC, Have limited space; Is big enough?

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  • Need SC, Have limited space; Is big enough?

    First off, I know Bigger is usually better; but my situation doesn't allow for that.

    I have a 6500 gallon (will expand to 9000 in two years) in need of a SC (took it out of orginal set-up B/c of complications). Because of limited space planning a 7 X 2 X 3 ft rectanglar basin, a mini version of the set-up at the San Diego Japanese Friendship Garden pond (AKCA Pre-filters and Filters Book). It will have brushes / baffles, and open core form. Is this sufficent?

    Is a 7 X 2 X 2.5 large enough to meet the primary need as a pre-filter?
    “In times like these men should utter nothing for which they would not be willingly responsible through time and in eternity.”

    Abraham Lincoln
  • #2

    It seems you are after an initial solids seperation stage. Have you already made up your mind that it will be passive SC...or SC with options (brushes, static K1, VMS...etc.)?

    Is this mechanical stage for one or more BDs, or one or more skimmers, or a combination of BDs and skimmers? What is the desired throughput ....2000gph, 3000gph...?

    For example it is hard to beat a sieve as a mechanical stage.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

    Comment

    • #3

      Originally posted by MCA View Post
      It seems you are after an initial solids seperation stage. Have you already made up your mind that it will be passive SC...or SC with options (brushes, static K1, VMS...etc.)?

      Is this mechanical stage for one or more BDs, or one or more skimmers, or a combination of BDs and skimmers? What is the desired throughput ....2000gph, 3000gph...?

      For example it is hard to beat a sieve as a mechanical stage.
      MCA,

      Thank you for a response.
      The bottom line is I have a space problem. I live in a high density area and I have used up "most" of the room available ( I went to a pond yesterday with space for expansion and filtration, and was very envious). I do my best to get a picture on here to give you guys a better understanding of the area (and probably open another can of worms; ie: over hanging veggies).
      The basic concept is based on the San Diego Japanese Friendship Garden filtration; designed by Norm Meck (see AKCA Pre-filters/ Filters booklet). Mine would have 3 inlet stand pipes (2 BD, 1 skimmer line) some sort of plastic-type screen to slow the water, a Tray-like device (slightly slanted) to slow and catch the light debris), then 2-3 rows of brushes to polish. Because of the space limit / hassle, I would clean by putting a sump pump to clear water , then hand scoop the leaves and debris.

      Regarding the GPH, I have a Sequence 5800 attached to this (main) line. So it is more like 4-5000 gph... at this time (I can hear the explosions going off in many "level" heads).

      That's the basics for me. I'll do my best to post a pic of the area that will be used.

      Thank you again,
      “In times like these men should utter nothing for which they would not be willingly responsible through time and in eternity.”

      Abraham Lincoln

      Comment

      • #4

        To give you an idea of space constraints


        here the area for the SC looking out from behind my water wall. It is @ 8-9 feet to the first ("major")obstruction. The SC will be 2'W X 7'L X 3' D.


        Here's looking across the pond to the same area.

        Again, I plan on a "mini" version of the JFG pre-filter designed by Norm Meck

        Thanks
        “In times like these men should utter nothing for which they would not be willingly responsible through time and in eternity.”

        Abraham Lincoln

        Comment

        • #5

          go with one or more sieves.

          cant think of any mechanical stage that uses so little space, removes solids from water column (not just captures them within the water column), and aerates the water.
          Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

          Comment

          • #6

            San Diego Baby-

            MCA has the proper and sane answer for you, delivering high efficiency, small footprint and economy that will only be evident *after* you go through with the project as you wish to.

            The space is too small and the volume will not be sufficient to passively seperate solids from water flow. The only way to slow the water flow would be more volume. 5800 X .25 = 1450 gallon settlement chamber and you will only have about 20% of that. This is why you will be adding stuff like baffles and traps and brushes to this chamber, trying to capture the debris that can't settle from the too fast flow in the too small chamber.

            Use any "stuff" you want...it will work. The design you should pay attention to though is to make the bottom of the chamber dramatically sloped...like 45 degrees...with a drain at the bottom with a real high quality ball valve that you can use once or twice or more a day to expel solids that do settle. Solids trapped on mats and brushes can fall and can settle and be expelled so that you don't have to always drain this chamber to clean it. (bummer) The pump in the bottom plan is not gonna make you happy. If you're so set on this chamber instead of something more efficient, SLOPE THE BOTTOM. Oh yeah, and make it out of concrete.
            Mickey the windowman, the world is a very big place.

            Aquitori says Keokoi says "even sun shines on dogs ass..." so I say... Buy Ugly Early.

            Comment

            • #7

              Open the vent

              Mitten,

              Yeah MCA has a very good idea; with one small problem. My understanding is those sieve systems are sort of open on the top. By looking at the pictures I provided, you should notice the leaf debris. The bougie tree debris; the LARGE bougie tree that drops LOTS of debris certain times of the year. Also the sieve(s) would be out in the open, with no real way to conceal them.

              I need a pre-filter system that will grab the large (if not ALL) debris out of the system before the water goes to bio-filter. Right now I spend a chunk of time (daily during certain times (bless string algae) of the year). What isn't caught by the pump leaf basket is chopped up and passes to the bio-filters; not good.

              That's why I'm thinking of the SC. I'm thinking now I can add a foot to the length (8 X 2 X 3)(48 cu ft). That in the opinion of a very respect fellow in the koi hobby is "acceptable".

              By the way Mitten; what's with the "baby". I'm 6'2", 230+ lbs., and I am secure in my sexuality

              “In times like these men should utter nothing for which they would not be willingly responsible through time and in eternity.”

              Abraham Lincoln

              Comment

              • #8

                If a cover is not available from sieve dealer, you can easily make one from a sheet of plastic from the DIY store. As for hidding the sieves, you can either purchase a screen (such as the plastic oness for hiding air conditioner compressors) or make one from a sheet plastic or treated wood screen material. You should be able to get all you need for it from a DIY store.

                Debris larger than the slot openning usually 200-300 micron, will slide down the screen and pile up at the bottom until you wash it away. That means it is out of the water column.
                Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

                Comment

                • #9

                  This is the situation a "Static Suction Pre-filter" is designed for.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by kent wallace View Post
                    This is the situation a "Static Suction Pre-filter" is designed for.
                    Two PM's and a message on this thread...

                    Ok Ok Mr. Kent Wallace, I'll give it a look.

                    Will you have one displayed at the 2009 AKCA Seminar/KCSD Koi Show? (in San Diego Feb. 12-15, 2009) ( 2009 AKCA Seminar and 22nd Annual KCSD Koi Show)

                    (Yes, that was a shameless plug)
                    “In times like these men should utter nothing for which they would not be willingly responsible through time and in eternity.”

                    Abraham Lincoln

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Yes I'll have one there.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by kent wallace View Post
                        Yes I'll have one there.

                        Great, I'll come looking.

                        “In times like these men should utter nothing for which they would not be willingly responsible through time and in eternity.”

                        Abraham Lincoln

                        Comment

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