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Thread: Are the days of 10+ yr olds winning "Grand Champion&quo

  1. #1
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    Are the days of 10+ yr olds winning "Grand Champion&quo

    It's kinda interesting to find that alot of the koi nowadays winning "Grand Champion" are of 6 to 7 yrs of age or even younger. Gone are the days of 10 to 12 yr olds dominating shows? I was wondering what a 12 yr old Momotaro or Saki Hiroshima look like. I was even told that some of the Saki fish die within days after the winning a show. Are these younger fish pushed to the limit in growth? I have seen Dianichi koi look very good at 12+ yrs old, but never one from Momotaro or S.F.F. compare at the same age. Momotaro die hards I know say "Will grow big", sure.... under what conditions? Half of these people don't even have the "Eye". Are people too occupied looking for size or overall quality? Don't get me wrong, I like jumbo fish. Who doesn't have a jumbo dream, but it's curious to see what people would prefer.

  2. #2
    Tategoi jacovors's Avatar
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    Hi Aquitori,
    I believe Momotaro has only been breeding koi for ten years now so it is a bit early to speculate about age on his koi.
    I for one believes a koi will not risk health just to become big. What I mean is a koi will not grow more than what is in his best interest.
    Good question and Jumbo Tosia being a new thing I think only time will tell. Everyone is doing it lately.
    Jaco
    Jaco Vorster
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  3. #3
    Sansai Andrew's Avatar
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    That's quite right. This is Momotaro's tenth year so the oldest possible 'Momotaro bred' koi would be nine years. But, even if you found it, that would be 'Momotaro bred' only, which is different to a Momotaro koi, if you follow?
    I guess a Momotaro koi would be max. six or seven years old now, several generations I think would have to be gone thru' before we can say that's a Momotaro as opposed to that's Momotaro bred off other breeders koi.
    Andrew

    "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

  4. #4
    Jumbo
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    The power of PR

    Perhaps the very best story to illustrate this point is the 26th All Japan Champion. an 85 bu sanke, bred by The Great One- Toshio Sakai, sold to Kaizuka koi center and grown in a giant wild pond, sold by a broker/dealer Kodama and finally fine tuned by a new rising star grower- Maeda.
    All that happened over 16 years.


    The best words I have ever heard on this subject were uttered by a high end breeder--

    A koi's development in the first two years of life is directly from its surroundings. But at four and five, the innate characteristics of the individual begin to appear - Toshio Sakai

    The best of the parent koi and the breeder's vision come through in the show winner. This takes time and is more about the overall 'presence' of a koi than about its length in inches. the pendulum will swing center again soon.
    JR

  5. #5
    Sansai
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    well, I bring out this topic again after I heard that 'Seio', the giant champion bred by Momotaro has died. Any body knows the cause of the death? May be Brian can enlighten us!

    Anywhere this fact makes me wonder, has too fast a growth rate results in shorter life span?

  6. #6
    Jumbo
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    Kiky, the forced growth model ignores the natural evolution of koi as a temperate climate creature. The draining of stored glycogen performed by cooling the koi down is lost. Therefore the koi must be fed less calories in a warm or tropical environment. Koi store materials just like any other animal but excess weight results in fat build up in the liver and brain of koi. So they get big and beautiful but are not so healthy on the inside- especially in the liver. JR

  7. #7
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Thank-you jim for saying that! I've always taught that in my classes and get more than a few "rolled eyes" of disbelief as most are ingrained to believe obese is beautiful ( but not healthy long term )

  8. #8
    Sansai Andrew's Avatar
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    Kiky,
    Yes Seio died.
    Shortly after the All Japan Show was cancelled.
    There is a story that it was connected to the preparing of her for the show and I also heard it was to do with an air pump failure, either way, a darn shame that a fish of such quality is lost to the koi show scene.
    Andrew

    "Gentlemen prefer ponds"

  9. #9
    Sansai
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    JR, Andrew, thanks for the information.

    Some of my nisai in my pond have reached 60 cm. Two of my tosai are almost 50 cm. Now I am having second thought about pushing growth rate to its limit. What's the point of having young jumbos if they are short-lived! This is counter to the prevailing trend; but shouldn't we have a deep rethinking to do of what is our priority in growing or keeping koi?

  10. #10
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    "Seio" dead? Still Can't believe it...Probably the next All Japan Grand Champion. It's hard to think that this Kohaku died due to air pump failure.

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