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Thread: World Record Tosai: 7 million yen

  1. #11
    Jumbo sacicu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akai-San View Post
    You are right on! What does the breeder see that the normal hobbiest, OR even well funded hobbiest doesn't see. I guess in the breeders eyes, this fish maybe too finished and probably will mature too soon in order to compete with the BIG gals in the GC arena. I'm sure anyone would still love to have this specimen in their pond.
    Auctions is different from selling it faster because it is of inferior quality. There is such a thing as strategy to bring out the best fish in an auction because it can bring up interest for the auction and in this case fame and huge profit for Dainichi. He could have opt to have this koi sell as a nisai and risk the sumi overpowering the pattern or this koi would command a higher price as a nisai as it grows further or it could just die in the mudpond. Either way there are risk involve. Meanwhile he has other exceptional koi that may not be ready for auction as tosai(because of body and pattern) but will be surely be ready as nisai.

  2. #12
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    He could have opt to have this koi sell as a nisai and risk the sumi overpowering the pattern or this koi would command a higher price as a nisai as it grows further or it could just die in the mudpond. Either way there are risk involve.
    Yes, imho, the breeder weighs the risks, decides there's more downside than upside, and decides to auction it off. In an auction, it is bidder beware. The only guarantee given is that it's female. Bidder is responsible for his own judgment (or if you will, misjudgment). No one is forcing him to bid above the value of the tosai. Whatever bid price prevails is never set by the breeder, and the breeder goes home safe from any accusation he overpriced any koi on auction. The buyer, on the other hand, has the highest hope it was all worth it as this was the "market" price. Comfort lies in knowing the breeder can be wrong in culling koi, and hopes he got away with a steal. That time will tell whether he was right. No one can be sure of the outcome. No one can really suffer the winner's curse as winning bidders still can enjoy the koi's beauty. Not winning the GC may not be the goal as bidder may simply have a soft spot for that koi. Plus, whatever the value, it will not impoverish him. No one can say he was a fool. Overall, if I by some stroke of luck happen to be blessed with a showa of such beauty, I would know how much I'd price it to someone interested.

  3. #13
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yerrag View Post
    As nice as the tosai is, I still wonder why it wasn't kept to grow further by the breeder. Is it an expensive cull? Or is it a calculated risk by the breeder?
    I am told that many of the koi sold at this auction were of good, solid quality, but not particularly special. There were also some that were very good... unusually good. And, there were the three Dainichi identified as 'special', which were indeed of rare quality and also had immediate appeal. So, it seems to me that Dainichi was placing some truly special ones up for auction in order to draw participants and build excitement. I suspect that for Narita and Koi Kichi FF to team up as they did, they likely knew about the Showa in advance (and not just by seeing photography on the web)... probably pointed out to Narita on one or several of his visits since the Fall harvest and discussed whenever paths crossed, such as at the many shows held after harvest. I'm not suggesting some advance deal. I would expect Mano-san to promote his top koi at every opportunity.

    But, is this record-breaking Showa the #1 tategoi tosai from the 2013 breeding year? ... On which day? I expect Dainichi has a 'top dozen' or 'top five Showa tosai' ... a top tier of tosai on which rest great hope for extraordinary achievements. This was probably one. But, just one and not 'the one'. The Mano brothers might like the potential of another a bit more, or even consider the four (or 10) they kept as equally worthy for raising up. The one thing I do not believe is that Dainichi put what the Mano brothers considered their true #1 tosai of the year up for auction. I would be very surprised if there were not others of equal potential designated for the mud. They might not have the same immediate appeal as to pattern, the sumi may be less developed, but the value as nisai even higher. ....A nisai at the auction went for even more, but not a record-breaking price. So, it isn't a headline discussion. Based on market value, the nisai is a better koi than the tosai. Think about it.

  4. #14
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacicu View Post
    Auctions is different from selling it faster because it is of inferior quality. There is such a thing as strategy to bring out the best fish in an auction because it can bring up interest for the auction and in this case fame and huge profit for Dainichi. He could have opt to have this koi sell as a nisai and risk the sumi overpowering the pattern or this koi would command a higher price as a nisai as it grows further or it could just die in the mudpond. Either way there are risk involve. Meanwhile he has other exceptional koi that may not be ready for auction as tosai(because of body and pattern) but will be surely be ready as nisai.
    Auction strategy is something to beware of. It is a psychological manipulation that gets people to spend more. The auction environment can do that, if well-promoted in advance to get some excitable attendees. The emphasis on males at Momotaro's last auction was interesting and apparently succeeded in getting strong prices for a larger than normal number of males. Dainichi attracted some very deep pockets with the 'special tosai' offered at this auction. There were 213 koi up for auction. Did they on average go for $500 more than if such deep pockets had not been attracted? Perhaps even more on average? If so, Dainichi made over $100,000 from that impact alone. I am told that bidding was energetic. There seems to be some thought that koi equivalent to the ones that went for, say, $3500 or less could be purchased at the farm for less. When there is good advance promotion, dealers arrive with customers' authorizations in hand and are eager to win for the customer (and themselves). Folks do tend to pay a maximum price.

  5. #15
    Nisai Benkei's Avatar
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    I dont get it. Thats an awfully finished tosai. How much could it "develop" before its completely finished? Could it grow that much before being fully finished?

  6. #16
    Oyagoi RayJordan's Avatar
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    I would doubt that a tosai would be purchased with the hope of winning a top Mature Koi Award at a All Japan show. Perhaps for the All Japan Young Koi Show. I agree that this tosai looks very nearly finished. Lots of reasons for the breeder to place this koi in a auction now. Fewer reasons to pay anything near this amount of money from what I can see in the photos. Must have been several well heeled bidders to drive up the price this high. I hope to see this same koi in a few more years to see if it merits the record bid.
    Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

  7. #17
    Jumbo Tosai_Sunny's Avatar
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    Congrats to Dainichi as well as the new owner. Both parties are winners. It's an amazing tosai! The pattern is exquisite on a very powerful body. From the photo and video, the shiroji quality seems questionable to me. The orangy tint on it's head, tail, and pectoral fins distracted me a little. I am guessing color enhancing food might be the culprit, but how do we know for sure?

    Here are some nisai males that caught my eye.



    Sunny

  8. #18
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Amazing fish and it gives us an insight what we will see in years to come. May be some one could tell me what a heritage fish is so it can not be shipped out of Japan ?
    Regards
    Eugene

  9. #19
    wild horse dinh's Avatar
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    My dealer tried hard to win this showa, but I failed to give him the green light. Well, next auction then.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #20
    Nisai NewKidInPond's Avatar
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    I keep the green card , my wife keep the red card, my dealer don't understand what i am try to saying .......was a failure bidding in my case ..hihihi j/k , let wait for the fall auctions !

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