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Thread: Egg-bound and Beautifully So

  1. #1
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Egg-bound and Beautifully So

    Last year two of my koi spawned. Needless to say, both of them were egg-bound. But I wouldn't know looking at one of them, the sanke. On the other hand, the other, the yamabuki, looked really egg-bound. They both spawned at the show vat, and continued on spawning after the show, in my pond. I was told after the show that the yamabuki would have gotten a prize, except that it was "that" egg-bound.

    A year has passed, and as we near the date of the koi show, I looked again at the two koi. The sanke looked beefed up and nice, but the yamabuki regained its egg-bound shape, although it wasn't as bad as last year's eggboundedness.

    This led to ask if being egg-bound is really enough to describe a koi. For one koi could be egg-bound and beautifully shaped, and no one would call it egg-bound; and another could be egg-bound and bulging, and would be described as "egg-bound." Perhaps it has become a common usage, a colloquial expression among koi hobbyist, to describe as "egg-bound" any koi that is bulging.

    Those koi that are winning GC's, with their massive and beefed-up bodies, isn't being egg-bound and beautifully so a requirement for them winning?

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    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    I don't equate "egg bound" with "egg carrying". Nor does the "eggy" look equate to beautiful. For me it simply depends on when I am viewing the koi. I certainly don't believe being "egg bound" is a "requirement" for winning a GC. If they show well with someeggs, more power to em. If the koi look poor when eggy, that's too bad, try another koi....
    Tim

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    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Thanks Tim. That's close to what I'm seeing. But I don't understand how egg-bound would not be egg-carrying. What is the difference?

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    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Mike- for me I think of females as always having eggs once they are sexually mature. It's a continuum, where they develop, grow, mature, expel. It is the lack of expelling the eggs that give an "egg bound" condition. And this can be caused by factors such as ovarian cysts or tumors, swim bladder issues, general illness. Just because a mature egg carrying female isn't spawned in spring doesn't mean she is egg boung- it simply means she hasn't released the eggs. To me egg bound is a malady that implies a health concern, where egg carrying is more of a condition and varies depending on what stage of development the eggs are in.

    In the end, it goes back to simply how the koi carries this feature- whether the eggs are bound or simply haven't been expelled is indifferent as the result is the same. I can appreciate a female that has some eggs that give her a full look, but I don't care for females that are bulding with eggs.
    Tim

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    Jumbo Akai-San's Avatar
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    Sorry, small change of subject related to egg bound females. Do all female koi eventually carry eggs for spawning. If the female koi is NOT big in the stomach section, does this mean the female has no eggs? My female koi are not too bulky and stay relatively same proportion all year round. Is there anything that triggers female koi to produce more eggs? I currently have males and females separated, so I'm not sure if they will like each other if I ever threw a pair together. Will nature just take its course with male and female during the right spawning season? Sorry, lots of questions. I wanted to try a first time spawning, but having time is always the show stopper.

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    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appliance Guy View Post
    Mike- for me I think of females as always having eggs once they are sexually mature. It's a continuum, where they develop, grow, mature, expel. It is the lack of expelling the eggs that give an "egg bound" condition. And this can be caused by factors such as ovarian cysts or tumors, swim bladder issues, general illness. Just because a mature egg carrying female isn't spawned in spring doesn't mean she is egg boung- it simply means she hasn't released the eggs. To me egg bound is a malady that implies a health concern, where egg carrying is more of a condition and varies depending on what stage of development the eggs are in.

    In the end, it goes back to simply how the koi carries this feature- whether the eggs are bound or simply haven't been expelled is indifferent as the result is the same. I can appreciate a female that has some eggs that give her a full look, but I don't care for females that are bulding with eggs.
    I learn something new here, thanks. Looking back, it's the gluttonous koi that develop the egg-bound condition. These are the friendly koi, the ones that like to surface, and the ones we like most. Because the reserved ones eat less, they don't bloat up. Then, there are koi whose eating behavior, partly shaped by not being too shy to surface and not being too friendly, just right in the middle, makes them consume just enough to grow well without getting egg-bound. And I am talking about koi being fed floating koi pellets. I may have another set of results observing koi being fed fresh food such as fish and worms, which are devoid of carbohydrates and fillers.

    I've thought about feeding my koi fresh food for an extended period, ranging from 3 months to a year, in order to see if the egg-bound condition is a matter of eating too much koi pellets, but it is hard to do as it would mean the koi would not be benefiting from eating color-enhancing food, and I'm afraid to see their color development take a step back. But I may have unknowingly done an experiment already on my tosai that came from fry.

    For about 6 months now,I have kept a promising dozen in my small pond so that I can control their food intake. I didn't want them to be in the main pond, as they would be eating from the older kois' share, and they would grow too fast at the expense of their coloration. They are fed koi pellets though, but none of them have developed a bulge. On the other hand, some tosai on the main pond have developed a stomach, and these are the voracious eaters.

    This leads me to believe it is the friendly and voracious behavior of some koi that is correlated to their development of egg-boundedness. I have yet to prove whether eating too much koi pellets contributes to it. If so, and given that avoiding koi pellets as food is impractical to most of us, it would be to find a way to keep the koi with large appetites from overfeeding.

    It may be that if I spent all my time at the koi pond, and start limiting the food intake of my erstwhile egg-bound yamabuki to normal levels, and start gorging my erstwhile well-shaped sanke, over time I would see a gradual change such that eventually my sanke would become egg-bound and my yamabuki would look nicely shaped.

    If the above scenario plays out, it would make less sense to call a bloated koi egg-bound, and more sense to call it obese.

    Edit: Still, calling my yamabuki obese wouldn't be right. The reason is that after she layed eggs, she lost her bloat. So, there must be something to justify calling her egg-bound.

  7. #7
    Oyagoi yerrag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akai-San View Post
    Sorry, small change of subject related to egg bound females. Do all female koi eventually carry eggs for spawning. If the female koi is NOT big in the stomach section, does this mean the female has no eggs? My female koi are not too bulky and stay relatively same proportion all year round. Is there anything that triggers female koi to produce more eggs? I currently have males and females separated, so I'm not sure if they will like each other if I ever threw a pair together. Will nature just take its course with male and female during the right spawning season? Sorry, lots of questions. I wanted to try a first time spawning, but having time is always the show stopper.
    I'm pretty sure it is a yes. The female koi are ready to spawn, they just needed a push. If you move them to another pond, and there is a large change of water as a result, it triggers them to spawn. I didn't know that until two female koi spawned during the show last year, and they continued to spawn even after I brought them back to my pond. Then the pond would have smelly sticky stuff, and what else is that sticky and smells but the milt? The thing is, the female risk losing some scales from the rough brushing from the male, and the coloration would take a step back if the scales are beni scales.

    p.s. This leads me to ask how I can prevent my koi from spawning at the show vat. Any ideas? I didn't want to go through that. Not only does it stress the koi, it clouds the water so, and makes the koi look less stellar, that it's not showing the best of the koi.

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